Melina & The Gloam Eye | Elden Ring Lore 

This comment will be fleshed out in the DLC to this video.

Shhhhhhh

My reaction to the first enemy in the dlc.

when you have nothing to say just say "Hashbrowns" it's the most wise thing you can say

By the end you propose Ranni took the eye from Maliketh, and that the GEQ was already defeated, there's a big problem with that. How can the GEQ have killed and skinned demigods with her apostles before the night of the black knives? Wich is clearly stated to be the first time demigods have ever died, this fact implies that the whole godskin movement must have happened after the night.

That's a really interesting idea

The reason why Rykard was given the Blasphemous Claw was because if the plot failed Rykard would straight up duel Maliketh for the Rune of Death

You making me blush. Thank you

Yeah I like that unique angle and why I follow Kosmos and Crunchy

@@chad5577 yup they're the two that I watch as well lol

It can serve both purposes

I would also like to add, that it's nowhere said, that black flame is or is somehow related to destined death. It's said that 1) black flame is created from the sword of the gloom-eyed queen, which in itself is not destined death and 2) after Maliketh sealed the rune of death, the source of the their (the apostles) power was sealed away, not the source of the black-flames power so the apostles used black flame and their weapons to kill gods, but that was not the property of the black flame, but the property of the apostles themselves, which might be the "eyesight", since apostles still carry the symbolic "eye" on their uniform.

You are so on target. The evil eye is definitely a thing. "The men who state at goats" are not fictional. There was (and Im sure still is) a tribe in Arabia that were capable of killing with their stare. This evil eye concept is also present woth Shabriri. Whose name reveals so much about another culture's "evil eye" rendition. And thanks to your knowledge and insight we know about the Japanese version. So I guess Melina keeps that eye closed because it would kill the Tarnished... altho we'd just respawn! As well the praying little girl in Placidusax arena has her eyes closed. And it's my belief that we get the ashes of those very wolves from Ranni along with the spirit calling bell. The way Enya says the rune of death was "plucked" from the elden ring... like "pluck" one's eyes out... If u inherit the flame of frenzy yoy have to get rid of it woth the unalloyed needle in the "eye" of the storm by stabbing your eye with it. Also runes and grace are held in one's eyes... there's so much to unpack here i dont even know how to bring it all together. Need more eyes on the inside

Valid arguments actually, but the reason I prefer the eye being the fragment is that it also ties nicely with ranni and Melina's situation.

​@@Kosmos_er a thing that most people don't bring up that I keep thinking about is ranni and Melina referrincing huignn and muignn the ravens of thought and memory and how ranni represents thought while Melina is memory

@animeproblem Niiiice! That ties in nicely witht he twin bird motif as well! In the lands between eyes are truly the windows to the soul. They become yellow islf your soul is tainted with frenzy, red if you're in to that blood stuff, and grace itself gives the eyes a golden hue (as does dragon communion but that's different). Seems to me that depending whoch outer god you're influenced by, your eyes show it. So Melina is at once influenced by the god of death and guided by grace... a union of gold and blue (Caria and Erdtree).

The one maliket gives you is mostly devoid of power

@@Kosmos_er Yeah, except for just sensing deathroot. So did only one eye ever have power, or was that of the beasts eye transferred to the rest of destined death?

@@arcanefire7511 It's likely the clawmark seal on the eye is... Well, sealing the power of the gloam eye. Likely done after the first eye was stolen to prevent such theft ever again.

Thank you for giving me a chance ;p

Also i think its highly likely that Miquella is the Torrents original master. But he also has his own communion with the dead shenanigans so he might also be in on the consiracy, maybe.

I wouldn't say the divine towers match farum architecture at all personally but I do agree that the godskin came from farum azula

Did Marika and Ranni really conspired together on the Same thing🤔

I have a theory that Godwyn was a willing player, that he allowed himself to be killed in this way so that marika’s plan could succeed because the guy had the power to defeat the ancient dragons no way some assassins could best him unless he was willing

a few people have been saying that so i am considering it. I appreciate the feedback.

Also, D, hunter of death presumably also has a Beast Eye so he can weed deathroot, as we receive the eye right at the beginning of the questline and it seems to be a basic tool used by all deathroot weeders

@@jacksonsavage6689 We don't know for sure deathroot weeders get an eye and the beast eye itself is basically completely drained of any power. In fact we know maliketh has been giving away some death power to weed deathroots. The vulgar militia-men that serve him use beast incantations and have their weapons buffed with death.

I have a major recap for you: 0. Marika is basically Mercurious (Devil's master). Even the name is a giveaway. mercury is a shape-shifting metal. Mercurious and Marika are both shape-shifters. How much more shrewd could it get?? 1. Marika became a bestower at a very young age. To pick and choose was her life. So, even if he loved Godwyn, it was not a kind or motherly love. It was like how we love food. We don't take care of it because we are kind. we take care of food because we want to eat it. Godwyn was always just a pawn. 2. Marika dedicated her life to the young Erdtree, after the Great tree fell, and became its only bestower. She never liked competition. 3. Marika forced everyone to do the same, including Godfrey. Not a loving marriage. 4. Marika prevented the growth of any other erdtrees in the lands between, despite the lands' potential 5. Marika used the Elden beast to kill the Gloam-eyed queen and replaced her. 6. She associated herself with the fingers, the Erdtree, the Elden ring, and the greater will. 7. She and her kin were white-haired and long-lived. Neither the long life, nor the beauty was enough for her. When she gained power, the abundance of life she obtained turned her life eternal, and her hair golden (hence the golden order). She used that against the eternal empire 8. Even that was not enough. She removed the rune of death from the Elden ring to become invincible. 9. Shegot interested in the alchemy of eternal cities, and made radagon 10. Marika used the power she gained to kill all the giants to protect her and her Erdtree's new built monopoly on life. She also conquered all the rest of the lands between. She the first totalitarian, in the lands between. 11. Marika used Radagon to deceive Renala and take her kingdom Just like Oda Nobunaga. The lands between is Japan btw. Its history is copied in full. and the golden order is the Shinto Empire. Question is: What's next? Answer is not: She retired and lived happily ever after with her family 12. Marika discovered that the Erdtree is ill, because of the crucible roots climbing up from it. She denounced the crucible, which was sacred before, calling it an omen. pretty accurate. but she even cast her own two kids away 13. Marika casted Godfrey away, hence the name "Tarnished" 14. Marika then started studying the greater will, and order itself, to "strengthen her faith" as she claimed. 15. Marika hatched a plot for all of her soldiers, to struggle for eternity then 16. Marika casted Godfrey away, hence the name "Tarnished" 17. Marika never actually loved Godwyn for what he was. Godwyn wasn't cast away, but he used to hide the fact that Godwyn was a mermaid. Though we don't know if he was a fish from birth, or became one in an attempt to become a dragon. 18. Marika trained all her kids to become military experts. and she was very lenient on Rykard and his massacres. 19. Marika ruthlessly encouraged competition among her kids. 20. Marika didn't shatter the Elden Ring in an eruption of dispair, or else, how could she give one rune to each of her kids? 21. Marika's was not murdered by Maliketh. she was executed. crucified. there was a process. a transfer of power. 22. Before she was executed, Marika found the time to banish lower Leyndel Sorry, but to me, Marika looks %100 Mercury, 0% Mommy. And she DID pick favorites among her kids. Just not Godwyn. So I must conclude that you are leaning too heavily on the game trailers. Let me remind you! Marika's story was written by George R. R. Martin, years before. Question is: Why did Marika conspire with Ranni?

Question is: Why did Marika conspire with Ranni? Answer is: She conspired with Melina, not Ranni. In George Martin's mythos, Marika had seven children: Godwyn, Godrick, Radahn, Rykard, Malenia, Miquella, and Melina. There was no Morgot, Mohg, Ranni*, Blaid, Serosh, Malekith, shadows, two fingers, or three fingers. And there was no flame of ruin. In the original story Destined death = Red flame = Flame of ruin (see Prince of Persia Shadow and Flame) These are additions by Hidetaka Miyazaki. He is a master of world building, but not a good storybuilder. In the original story, Marika went to war against the dragons, their queen (the Gloam-eyed queen), and the flame of death, not the giants and the flame of ruin. In George Martin's story, Empyreans were Malenia, Miquella, and Melina, not Ranni. Marika conspired with Melina, not Ranni Melina was a black knife assassin, not a firekeeper, not a kindling maiden, not a finger maiden, and not a waifu. It was Melina who did not want to be beholden to the fingers. It was Melina who would walk alongside the flame, to meet the road of destined death**. It was Melina who stole the rune of death. It was Melina who broke into Leyndel with the assassins. It was Melina who killed Godwyns soul, and her own body. She was also born afflicted anyway (did not have a healthy body) It was an act of sacrifice, not a way to get rid of the "influence" of the fingers. I mean... cmon... did u ever believe that? It was Melina who set the Erdtree ablaze during the night of the black knives. It was Melina, not Ranni, who was burned and bodiless. It was Melina who ended the age of plenty, and caused the fall of Lower Leyndel, the golden order, and everything. It was Melina who's soul inhibited a four handed doll. It was Melina the doll who borrowed Torrent*** from his brother Miquella to be able to travel as a spirit doll. It was Melina the doll who sought out the tarnished, and gave them torrent's whistle, and the ashes for the three wolves of Farum Azula It was Melina the doll who would use the fingerslayer blade (Gloam-eyed queen) to kill the fingers. It was Melina's corpse that we were supposed to find, above a divine tower, or wherever. It was Melina's rune we were supposed to obtain. It was Melina's hand, we were supposed to take in marriage. It was Melina's kingdom we were supposed to rule in the end. --------------- * Ranni was Sellen. Renna, Rennala and Ranni were sisters. ** Destined death used to mean transfer of souls to the underworld. You could simply sleep (or visit catacombs) and go see dead people's souls. *** Torrent is a god of the underworld btw. The underworld is where souls go during dreams. Look for it in the upcoming DLC

@@armandaneshjoo I actually really enjoyed reading this

@@Kosmos_er Proud to hear that. Took me a whole year to figure it all out.

@@armandaneshjoo Interesting, though it'd be great to be true, I'd like more of a source for such a radical idea. All things considered GRRM wrote the world building in the first place, implying over half the lore was later rewritten and added to into what we have now is wild without some kind of evidence backing it up.

Never

Glad you enjoyed it

This is my theory too. This video kinda helps as Marikas eyes are never shown. She could be, or once be, gloam eyed. Possibly passed the eyes on to Melina and possibly Ranni.

Yoooo I been trying to find a reason why she didn't have body or memory. I like this!

Maybe I should. I have always talked about it like it's a fact.

We can see statues of Miquella - there's nothing interesting about his eye. Furthermore Ranni's actual corpse doesn't seem to bear the mark

Malenia doesn't have it either and she's an empyrean

I am aware, and that's what I lean towards. But the final rewrite leave room for the other possibility. It doesn't change anything, it's just metal as fuck of maliketh gouged the GEQ eyes and kept them. Probably just his tho

@@Kosmos_er Right, and they could have removed the version 1.00 flavor text to align with your theory, too, since so much has been changed. I was curious what you think about St Trina and the Gloam-Eyed Queen perhaps being the same, or serving the same outer god. Firstly, the Godskins are notoriously weak to Sleep, and St Trina is called the Cradlesong, which might mean a lullaby. Secondly, the GEQ swathed the godskins and "cradled" them (according to the Swaddling Cloth). Secondly, death and sleep are very similar, or at least have been in religious and literary texts for a long time ("to sleep perchance to dream"). Thirdly, St Trina's flame is purple, like the GEQ's eyes. It is crepuscular, and humans start to become sleepy at the Gloaming (though it could also be a metaphor for the end of day, and thus the end of someone's reign). Maybe St Trina is the diminished form of the GEQ, the power of Destined Death being no more than induced sleep now. It seems that all of the demigods are affected by an outer god except Miquella, and I know his ingenuity is to reject the outer gods, but what if he IS affected unconsciously by an outer god (or dead Empyrean)? What if the GEQ's phantasm is influencing him when he is unaware of that influence, maybe even to the point that she is his alternate personality independent of his conscious will. Miquella is St Trina, and St Trina is the Cradlesong, and the GEQ "cradles" Godskin Apostles, who are incredibly susceptible to the Sleep status. That is my tinfoil theory.

@@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962 They both have purple theme, sleep and death are close, and the trina torch has a single omnious eye. Personally not sure if that connection could lead anywhere, but we'll see in the DLC

By make its way to Melina I just meant she was handed the eye

The si.ilar moveset cohld be that they are all of the same stock as Marika as is said in an item description. The black knives are just blades of calling that have been imbued with the rune of death.

Correction: SmoghTown just published a video, placing the godskin apostasy after Marika's war with the giants. That makes the gloam-eyed queen Marika's sister.

It's a possibility, then he forgot the give her the other stuff and went to ranni "oh shit I forgor to give her this bell fam, can you like give to whoever gets torrent. Frfe thanks on a stack"

@@Kosmos_er who knows man, he was too busy looking for Ensha

Basically

Because I'm talking about the spirit not the doll

I mean think about it The Greater Will is most likely broken after the Elden Beast is killed so she completed what I believe she set out to do kill a God and end the Greater Will even if the Greater Will is still around and most likely just wants a lord (I mean look at what they wanted as OK "The Goddess of Rot" REALLY have y'all not seen Calid and the Helitree and y'all are ok with that, some Greater Will)

That's torrent

@@Kosmos_er I didn't realize it was the Spectral Steed Whistle, but it does resemble the Dark Sign from Dark Souls.

I like this theory. I’m surprised it’s not more popular.

Hm but the sculptor who discovered the secret couldn't have used Radagon as a model if he were already trapped within the Erdtree

Death bird talon

It doesn't contradict anything If rune of death gives power to one's eyes, than beast eye of maliketh, inside whom the rune of death is sealed, will have some part of the power of the gloam eyes of the gloam-eyed queen or to the blue eyes of melina in the frenzied flame ending

And do you think Melina is strongly connected to Ranni ?

@@the1384 They are most definitely connected, if only by the fact they both know Torrent, and there's also the eye thing which is hard to see as coincidental. But I'm not sure it really goes further beyond that. My current take is that Ranni would've had to deal with the GEQ or what remains of her (Melina ?) when she made the Black Knives. But ultimately betrayed them because she had her own ulterior motives that didn't align with the BK's. That would explain why we find Alecto imprisoned where she is, and why Iji and Blaidd are attacked by Black Knives.

Malenia is a Empyrean so she would have had a shadow as well, not be one

@@esperhunter7263 So Malenia and Miquella would have their own shadow wolves?

It would be cool if she was more in the game. Maybe if she would pop out at every site of grace, just to vibe together.

Bruh I’ve played 700 hours and never seen a ghost/woman on torrent behind my dude

You basically laid out some of the critical elements to narrow down who it could be. It is one of those 3

Unsure. Could be so many things, I hope to get more info on her in the DLC

Early 2024 at the most

Maybe she appears in simmilar way how Renna appears in the churh, as a sort of projection.

@@Karak-_- But she needs the player to taker her to the Tree. It's gotta be more than that, although I agree that the visual affect of them leaving suggests similarity. Although if Ranni were just projecting an image of herself, I would expect it to look like her before she died. Why project the foll and spirit shimmer? No that I think about it, that seems odd, too. She doesn't ask you to clear a path to the Erd Tree. She asks to be taken there. She's a long for the ride, somehow present even when not showing herself. The only thing she gives you is the ring, and I don't see her being bound to that.

Warrior set

Cool theory

Proof it's the original story by GRRM?

@@esperhunter7263 How much proof do you need?

@@esperhunter7263 for starters, you can read my reply to blitz ace comment.

@@armandaneshjoo mf'r you made me dig through all these comments to find your post and it has zero evidence it's GRRM's original story. Are you high