Analysing More Of Chris Watts Manipulating His Parents 

It’s so perverted and twisted their absolute absolving him of destroying so many people. They’re as bad as him

I did not show for school one day and got beaten With a belt in my Youth , and this murderer gets baby by his family after killing his wife and kids is sickening

Lol 😂 😂,,

Lol I think that says it all 🤣 I shouted more at my 5 and 7 year old for not cleaning their room

😄😄😄

Right? And we wonder where his ever-present victim mentality stems from!

They don't even seem to care their grandchildren are dead.

As if he was in the wrong place at the wrong time or that Shannan forced him to kill everyone. Their support of him is mind-numbing. Either they're faking it or they're delusional.

@@JJ-iq8mi oh I'm sure they care.

@@JJ-iq8mi I don't believe they ever saw them as their grandchildren, they were 'Shanann's children' and that's it. Absolutely sickening bunch of people.

That's what I think. She's evil. No wonder Chris is so screwed up.

I also think this! I also believe she wanted to harm her granddaughter who had the food allergies in order to get at Shanann. I believe she is quite malicious and toxic.

When he killed Shanann, he was killing that of which his mother hated the most, Shanann, he talks about how angry he was with her, and he couldn’t stop, because his momster was in his head at that very moment choking the life out of her hatred 👿💩

Now she has her baby back. Even though he's in prison. He needs her even more now. And he is in the position to accept all her love and admiration without Shanann in the way.

@@neverwhere1391 yes! Her real grandchildren are Jamie and her husband's children. Because Bella and Celeste were carrying half of Shanann's DNA, they weren't her REAL grandchildren. EDIT: To clarify, I meant that Cindy Watts loved her grandchildren by her daughter and her daughter's husband, Steve. Because Chris's children had half of the hated Shanann's DNA, Cindy didn't love them. Nutgate gave us a glimpse of just how determined she was to get rid of Shanann. After Chris murdered Shanann and their daughters, Cindy has repeatedly said to Chris that it doesn't matter what he did, she loves him so much. She also told him that he is responsible for leading her, Ronnie and Jamie to God; nobody else did that! She isn't grieving Bella, Celeste or Nico. She wanted to be rid of Shanann and she got her wish and more! Great job, Cindy, there's no Shanann nor her progeny left alive.

You're right! That's exactly what they sound like.

So true

Omg Meghan Sharma you are so right lmfao!!!! You made my day. That is exactly what they sound like! Please come home safe son!!!! Like he is at war! Lmfao

His new friend Annie probably is a friend of NKs and is helping them to beable to talk and plot lol....kinda odd this Annie showed up out of nowhere! No probley sent her to get scoop to make sure she knows Chris isnt ratting her out or something!

Like everyone else, you are spot on!

Because they have him back to themselves, they don't have to worry about another horrible, unworthy woman take him from them!

Did they hate Shanann that much & feel better that shes out of the picture?, What about the babies? This is mind blogging.

Yes. There are some seriously sick people in this life. ​@Tina-gg7rk

Agreed, there is not one scrap of compassion that comes through these people for Shannan and the children. Not one, from any of them Shocking.

And they lost their grandkids too. They don't seem to care about the kids.

Nobody would be good enough for her offspring! This woman is a pitiful human being and an absolute pitiful Mother and a disgusting cold Grandmother. Ugly breeds UGLY!

It makes me sick to my stomach that they are acting like this I can’t find one interview where they mentioned that they are grieving the losses of their grand children or daughter in law. Not one interview where they express their condolences to Shanann’s family. It’s so f-ing disrespectful acting like their son is the victim when he is the one that caused all of this

Doesn’t even care about her own granddaughters.

I don't think they loved their grandchildren.

@@cookie_dough_hangover No, and I believe it's because of their hatred for Shan'ann that they have zero resentment towards Chris for what HE did to them! Cindy is delusional! I honestly can not stand her!

@Maureen Ingleston especially after how they were found too! They were still their grandchildren yet no emotions towards how they were found! They make me sick! Seriously!

They did not exist its obvious

Yeees, exactly. It's like they didn't exist. You are our savior son, ....and move on. Geez, Shanann was spot on with these nutter inlaws. 😢

She’s a narcissist and sees him as an extension of herself.

There's a really good True Story book by Jack Olsen called ' SON'. It's about how a narcissistic mother can ruin her son's life and create a monster.

They are both narcissists that's why there's a weirdness between the two of them. Two in a small family will create an awkwardness because they tend to manipulate in different ways. Narcs are known to clash because of their different traits. Ability and inability to control are two of many of them. Monster mother Cindy is a perfect example of a dangerous narcissist..She doesn't hide it..What she is all about is right out in the open. She hides nothing. Chris is a covert narcissist. His tendencies are different than his mothers. He role plays as a kind, soft spoken, and caring individual.. He feels quite opposite inside compared to what he projects to us. He manipulates under the radar with lies to cover up lies. Deception / lies and a host of other dangerous psychological behaviors covert narcissists commonly use on others.. They're all hidden..it's him against the world, always under the radar of course. While Cindy is openly abusive..you can tell she doesn't hide her emotions and is oblivious, nor does she care how she comes across to others. She's outwardly crass, insulting and disturbingly outspoken with zero empathy..None whatsoever.. I can't stand listening to her in interviews, I can't imagine living with her. Poor Ronnie..I believe Chris despises his him. Chris manipulates him because he's is less of a threat than his overbearing mother is. Any attachment he shows towards Ronnie is fake.. I've researched this disorder and from what I took from it in this area is the reason a covert narcissist despises the non abusive parent is because they didn't save them from the torment, shame and verbal abuse the narcissist parent used on them. Sounds to be true..Cindy being the overbearing parent and Ronnie simply agrees with her. He has no balls in the household..Cindy handsdown is the ruler. When Chris was young and impressionable, he was singled out by his mother because of his quiet and shy nature (seen by the narcissist parent as weak) He probably did anything he could to please his mother, but it was never enough for her..He was a perfect target for his mother to manipulate and verbally abuse as far back as his early developmental years. Its telling how badly it was by the degree of narcissism he has. He's the product of a very dysfunctional household. All pointing towards Mommy dearest. I think any tears we've seen her shed is for herself and how Chris makes her look like a bad parent having a son that could do such a thing as taking out his own family the way that he did. Shame on you Cindy..yes we can see right through you.. Despicable

Chilling!!!

Yeah they are weird and creepy people

Agreed, it's actually hideous to hear the way they over inflate his ego.

That is exactly it. I could understand parents and siblings would still love a murderer but trying to say he was justified and had been done wrong is pure evil

@@hilbina Completely agree. It's no wonder he ended up a narcissist (and a psychopath to boot).

@Lace & Roses I think you are correct

Yeah, like....look at what "she" made our precious, innocent Chris do....(IT's sickening, how they put him on this kinda throne...next thing, he'll appear with a halo !!!!! )...🤮

Very true. The family at this juncture seem to be there for him, but in reality they are fighting for their own survival outside amongst the people they know.

And Chris is their savior and lord 😇

That Made me LAUGH and fall off my chair!!!!!!!

In time of hopelessness people turn to God...its natural 🙏

More like closer to Hell.

@@sarak4217 it boggles the mind, truly. In all my 62 years I’ve never seen people like this or heard of a case such as this

I know. These people are skum of the earth.

🤮

Their God is obviously on the daytime talk show circuit.

This is spiritual manipulation. Extremely common amongst narcissists.

That disgusted me to my core!!!

Cindy Watts is a certified nutcase.

And remember... Only Chris could do that! Seriously? Hey, Cindy, most families just go to church and don't require one of their kids to slaughter his family to do so.

Beyond appalling. They are all bat shit crazy.

It's like a cult, whatever Cindy says they all treat as fact.

You can't blame them for believing what he told them. Shannan killed the girls and he went into a blind rage... Tammy caused so much trouble when she threw him that lifeline because he ran with it

Absolutely

I agree.It seems CW gets sweeter and sweeter to his parents! It makes me sick.

That is the most perfectly apt description of their attitude that I’ve heard.

Exactly!

@@frankierzucekjr if i was Jamie Watts i would not be allowing him any kind of information on my children. Ever. He is a child KILLER!

Liberty Na, well said.

Omg yes! I 2nd that: well said!!

Absolutely!!!

@Maureen Ingleston He has his parents convinced that he is a Biblical character and God will find a way.

Because they fear the smear and sneers imagined after his suicide. Simple...

Chris mother just didn't want that he kills himself. That's all. Because it's the hardest lost for a mother. That's why she supports him.

And he was drugging her for weeks, trying to cause an abortion or her death !!!! Don’t forget that part. He’s a devious manipulative lying cheating murderer yet they act like he’s a hero. There’s something seriously wrong with these people. Crazy making !!

They can't accept that he is a simple murderer. That surely isn't the son they put out for the world to see. His guilt is their guilt and their standing in the community is at risk. They will never seek therapy, it is easier for them to believe the world is wrong about their boy. Imagine having to wake up everyday and the first thing you think about is your murdering son and having to adjust your crown of parenthood to face another day

I call BS on his parents “not wanting him to murder himself” 🤣 Chris is far too narcissistic to harm himself. That’s clear to any SANE individual. Why is Chris’ father still blaming Shanann for her own death in interviews? Clearly they’re not worried about ANYONE.

It's strange that she had a glass of wine, celebration comes to mind, but what for🤔 because he's been jailed and they're all safe, just a thought !

@@carolynmillea9557 Right?? This made me sick to my stomach, like the trial was just a minor inconvenience. I like how the Rzuceks were shown though it was painful to watch and then the comparison with the Watts reaction to the trial. I hate the Watts family so much

Cindy knows she created a monster and that she fuelled the hatred against Shannan, but if he wasn't jailed and went back to live with mum and dad he might kill them too,

Listen to his dad - same thing. I think it's because they're so used to Cindy cutting them off.

2 he- shes with no cajones.

@@OttawaAndy I just commented above how it disgusts me the way Cindy cuts everyone off and repeats what they say more loudly than they do. I suppose I should have just said how she will just cut them off to talk over them. I don’t even have words to accurately describe my thoughts about her. I would love to know how she was raised. (ie: her mother/grandmother/so-on) because I think she was probably raised the same way. As they say, “You have to have permits for a multitude of other activities, but ANYONE can have and raise a child”🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

Because narcissists are actually frozen in adolescence mentally.

And every other word isn’t like

Yes! The fawning over one another is super weird!

blu - I try to console myself with this thought - they are not very bright - there is something so very seriously wrong with these people - with the mother - the whole lot of them. I don’t know why but they make me think of the movie “Deliverance”. Their conversations aren’t even conversations - so disturbing to listen to.

You can tell she thinks he's SUCH a hero for remembering his niece's gymnastics competition while he's facing a murder trial. The gasping for air suggested to me that she is so grateful to him for validating her good opinion of him. Now she can go to sleep at night thinking, "see, he really is a good person!"

His end will be filled no doubt.

A glass of wine to celebrate he didn't get the DP

@@keithcitizen4855 That would be Way too easy

Exactly.That family doesn't see Chris Watts the way normal people see them.He is just a child killer. Nothing to be proud of.

EXACTLY! It matters not a fly spec to them that he annihilated his entire family and will spend the rest of his sorry life behind bars, just so long as that wicked, evil woman has no place in his life anymore which now leaves him available to his first family. I bet Cindy is beside herself with hate of all the sick little groupies who now fawn over her murderous baby boy.

You have a good point.

Bingo!!!

Those w/ npd mimic & project - my former spouse & his mom had the same behavior as CW & his mom. Wierd, dysfunctional & creepy. I learned of the disorder after my divorce which explained their Behavior.

He will started to take the mimicking after whoever is closest to him now. Unfortunately this is something to do with mental problems. I have this tendency and I noticed that after my forties I developed the same. Because I am older I can manage better. What is funny is that I had friends that talked very badly including bad words, I never mimic that. It is interesting to me who I choose and pick to mimic. I see that in some followers of what we consider cult churches in my country. The pastors talk like the senior pastor and some women do the same with the pastors wife. So I am assuming that has something to do with mental problems.

Yes. "I was like she isn't here, like where did she go? Like she went to like a play date, like I tried to call her I like texted her and like she never liked answered. I like have like an alarm on my like garage door and like it went off at like 5 30.

"like" is used by liars.

Yes...yes...yes!

And how Cindy jumps in and repeats whatever someone else is saying even if it is the complete opposite of what she just said. They all act like we did in Jr High when you didn't know who you were yet.

And I d high five you after you did...lol

It's like Zoe says in the videos, the covert narcissist is never seen or recognised for who they truly are this is why they "detach" from themselves and do not develop emotionally. The pattern continues and they are even blind to his being a murderer...(!!!!!!)

Absolutely. I love my grand babies like I birthed them myself. I have a very strong bond with my to oldest ones especially. My two youngest were born after I moved out of state, so I haven’t gotten to see or spend as much time with them, other than FaceTime and the occasional holiday. However, I still could not be so blasé if either of my sons (or daughters) did this to their family. I’m sure I would still love them, but the blinding support and forgiveness is something I just don’t know if I could even pretend to show them. I would rather be dead myself than know one of my children could do something so reprehensible to their babies. What those two little girls went through (and especially Bella) turns my stomach and shatters my heart. You’re right, I would lose my mind!!!

Because you are normal, loving grandmother.

As a grandmother too - I would lose my mind - my heart starts to splinter if I even think about something happening to them - I cannot even go there.

Ditto.

@Mannequin Gothique people who keep blaming on Satanic shit, is not even close to what I know about Satanism and Luciferianism. As a someone who believes in The Christian God, it’s more of something my God would ask of a follower. I mean it’s right there in the Bible.

Yes, call him what his is. A Disgusting, coward and a psychopath

It's because he doesn't have a "self". He is what is called and empty seater... vacant.. these are the kind of people that are wide open to demonic infestation.. like a dummy. Evil can't be explained by psychology... it is a supernatural spiritual force that goes against life and truth. This is the psychology of demons. Yes he is culpable for aligning himself with evil and he will be punished by the Almighty... we all have free will.. everybody knows right and wrong but these people discard their conscience to embrace evil. Evil is absolutely a personal choice. How can you say that the devil is a boogieman (not real) when you yourself have a pentagram (used to summon demons) for your profile pic ..unless you are a gatekeeper trying to maintain a level of ignorance about the reality of evil? Seriously! You contradict yourself.

@@kristikola777 Have you ever read the tenants of Satanism and Luciferianism because you have it completely wrong. I don’t know everything there is to know about those religions because I’m not a part of them but I have done some research into them actual unbiased research not through the lens of some Christian distortion lens. This is why I no longer align with those who call themselves Christians or gather in places they do. Y’all have no critical thinking skills.

Their death ruined her precious sons life. So warped

Exactly

Not that it is much of an excuse, but then we've all learned that this sick family doesn't need much of an excuse for anything they say or do, but at the time of this recording, they were still under the assumption that Shanann had killed the 2 girls and in one of their earlier phone calls Chris had asked them not to say mean things about Shanann so I guess they just avoided the whole issue. How they can do that is beyond me, but it seems like this family can compartmentalise all of the atrocities leaving them free to shower love and affection on their beloved son. It's so sickening.

The children were Shananns life, they would rather have their precious son Chris. 🤮

This is how bullies - and worse - are created. Taught that they can never do any wrong by their parents, no matter what they do. Very, very dangerous.

I was in a relationship with a guy like that. He has full custody of his daughter, i got pregnant with his son and we moved into a house together and his daughter was abusing my 1 year old daughter. Instead of taking her to the counseling i set her up with, he complained that therapists were quaks.... He wouldn't allow me to tell him about the abuse his daughter was putting on mine or talk about the inappropriate behaviors she was displaying(no child would do those things unless it was showed or done to them) even though himself and family members witnessed the behaviors themselves. Instead after 2 therapy appointments and i had asked him to get her child care while he worked... He decided to take her to his family's house and i never saw her again... I've only seen him less than a handful of times. He never came to his sons birth, wont respond to calls or text messages. Our son is a little over a year old and has disabilities.... He wont even answer to help me with his side of family medical history. His whole family refuses to speak to me or help with my sons needs. They are angry i told anyone what his daughter was doing and deny it vehemently even though i have text conversations to prove they were WELL AWARE.

How can they be closer to God after what he did? They sincerely need psychological help.

Right! And have you ever seen that work out well for the kids? I haven’t and I’m old.

It's the height of hypocrisy for them to go religious! Isn't it convenient how God forgives before you have to do all that soul searching or even basically take responsibility for your actions? And how you can be a paragon of virtue despite having murdered your pregnant wife and children? So sick.

Thanks so much Jenn! ☺️

The R family gave them SO much love those girls never knew what they were missing ❤❤❤

"Vile" is the perfect word.

@@LoveShackSarah88 Absolutely. And for her to bring god into all of this? Horrific.

@@af7602 i want to love that BUT i can't agree with equating chris watts to our twats.. i know MINE is completely rejecting the comparison... 😏

@@LoveShackSarah88 it did seem that way, didn't it! she doesn't care, just as long as Shannan is gone. she'll take whatever method was needed to facilitate that... her only problem is her son makes her look bad now

It’s called a spin. “Yes you killed your wife and children but now you’ve found God! The Lord works in mysterious ways” …They are all nuts.

Same here. Except instead of trying to turn me against my father and sister, they tried to turn me against my mom and brother. Sounds like you’re a male with a narc mom? I’m a female with a narc father

@@clairewillow6475 I am so sorry you had to go through that too...

@@moinmoin1293 thank you 🙏

I wish that was my life and my MIL. She is choosing to be in denial to protect herself and she has since he met his wife. He can murder and do no wrong and this is SCARY common. My MIL is like this and called a child her son hurt a sex name bc her son wouldn't do "that".

I love to see dr. Phill grilling her, but that is not going to happen.

I have 2 sons and I’d disown them no questions asked it’s absolutely sickening

SHA!✊ Hey there I think I've seen you before! Have a good day!

@@alabasterfigueroa4431 heyyyyyyyy, how'd you find me? 🥰😇😅🦄

@@DanaALittleBit I watch some of this woman's videos, was scrolling down some of the comments and just happened to see your comment!

Dana ALITTLEBIT Thanks so much! 😊

Same!

And then she is happy to give him information about her children!!! He is a child KILLER!!!

I dont blame them for still loving him. I blame them for not questioning or criticising him. For putting him on a throne. You can love someone and still tell them how much you detest what they did.

I just watched a documentary about a guy in Arizona who killed his family and disappeared. His sister got on there and told him to turn himself in and if she knew where he was she would call the police herself. She said she loved him but he killed her SIL and neice and nephew. That's a real person, not these Watts people.

If my brother killed my sister in law and my nieces, I would be in prison waiting execution, trust me, he would not survive the women in my family, ever.

it's bizarre, they are all nuts.

I think they are trying not to bring him back to the memory...but they don't realize he may not feel remorse but I don't know.

She’s a narcissist who raised another narcissist.

Spot on observation. The Narcissistic Mother is also always looking for Supply, and her Golden Son is one of her primary sources (and why as a child her Narcissism damaged him and created HIS Narcissism.

Note to world: Listening to Christian contemporary music and thinking about your murderer brother the whole time while driving to work, does NOT make you a Christian.

Interesting thought...and true.

Thanks so much Sharelle! 🤗

Hope you and your parents are doing well (or as well as you can, under the circumstances). Sending you all love from Scotland.

Thanks so much Frankie! 🤗❤️ It would be great to hear what you think about the next one. You're the one whose seen Chris and Cindy together, I'm sure you have some insight into this and you can tell me if you think I'm missing anything. xx

I have watched the videos of this story unfolding and you and your family's grief so many times. the funeral. the trial. I will never understand how you did not turn around and strangle him yourself, but that would not help your family. You are an example to all of us of how to be a real person in the midst of the most horrifying grief anyone has had to go through. I wish you could answer one question publicly. I know at the funeral you said that is the last time you will ever speak to him. But have you or your parents had any further communication with him? Will you ever visit him in jail in the decades to come? Have you had to have any dealings with his dysfunctional insane family? The entire country if not the whole world is behind you in your family! I am just so sorry for what you have been through. But do not let this define your future! Be better than him. Don't let him take your future away. We all love you!

Love and prayers to you and your family Frankie. ❤️

It's great to see that you discovered this site. Many people who have survived narcissistic abuse have been hoping you would. Lot of help here for people trying to heal from it.

He has already admitted to it he definitely did it he killed Shannan

@@angeldream1 I know he pleaded guilty but not to his parents. His parents believe Shanan killed the girls. But what I’m saying is that his parents are not asking him questions. They’re not thinking critically and just let Chris be this innocent man who snapped when in reality he planned the whole thing.

@@n.p.r.2973 they already know he did it they were there at the court thing I don’t remember what it’s called

@@n.p.r.2973 he had his sentencing

@@angeldream1 he told his parents that they made him plead guilty but that shannan did the girls. He’s actually trying to hire a lawyer saying that he was cornered into that confession. It’s all bullshit but his parents believe him.

And the unborn boy

Davida a that's JUST what he is!!!

And baby

I am haunted by how terrifying for Shanan her last moments must have been. He's not physically abusive or even threatening. She probably never saw if coming. That is truly horrifying. That moment when she realized he's a monster.

@Maureen Ingleston well said ! I totally agree. One of the best channels on RU-vid ! ❤️☮️

Thanks Lisa! 🤗

I’m an anxious chameleon too. It’s so hard!

You sould like you may have had codependent attributes. Covert narcissists like Chris, in particular are often confused with codependents. This is why, in my opinion, they are more dangerous than overt narcissists. Covert narcissists do not seem like narcissists at first. They come across as weak, helpless, insecure or can come across broken, desperate, pathetic and needy. They come across as victims. They are not. They are narcissists. After being around these people for a while, people often realise whatt looks like insecurity is really self-centeredness. What looks like helplessness is really blame for others, and an excuse not to take responsibility for anything they've done. What looks like desperation and weakness is really an attempt to control and manipulate. They use your pity and sympathy against you, and they are every bit the narcissist that an overt, bullying one is. Another thing that adds to the confusion is that narcissists actually are codependent themselves, after a fashion. They are dependent on other people for many things, and they foster an environment of enmeshment with others by destroying boundaries between themselves and a partner. However, they do this so that they can get inside the other person's defense mechanisms. The codependent already has poor boundaries to begin with and enmeshment with a codependent occurs on accident. A narcissist does it on purpose. I think Shanann was vulnerable when she met Chris which in turn made her susceptible to his love-bombing, especially because most people who become entangled in these situations are vulnerable in some way. . People who are vulnerable in some way get sucked in because they want to believe. All the places where they feel empty are suddenly filled and that is so hard to resist, They may be predisposed to react to love bombing because of past experience with trauma bonds. They may doubt their self-worth for some reason or have other powerful insecurities, and because of that, they are susceptible to the narcissistic person's manipulations. And by the way when I say narcissist this also applies to psychopaths who are end stage narcissists, they follow the same relationship cycle. Love-bombing usually looks like continuous, intense affirmation of how perfect you are, and how perfect the relationship is or will be. It often happens very quickly. You may have only known this person a very short time, maybe even only a few days. Suddenly they're talking about how you must be soul mates and how the future is going to look with you. They're going out of their way for you and treating you as if you are the only person that matters in the world. Everything is so wonderful and perfect. Not only that, but it feels true. This person seems like they are the epitome of everything you've ever needed. If the narcissist is a family member, like a parent, it may feel like they're finally giving you the approval and validation that you've always needed. Nobody - nobody - is more amazing than a narcissist in the idealization phase of the cycle. People want to believe in the fantasy they are selling you, you take them at their word even though many ppl on some level know inside they you shouldn't. There may be constant attention, constant compliments, affirmations, validation, extreme future faking, gifts for no reason and a general focus on you. In this phase, the narcissist often hits you like a bird hitting a windshield. Just a sudden intense collision out of nowhere. People get swept up. They lose control. They crash. This happens because when someone is vulnerable to this kind of attention, they let their guard down. They believe it must be the real deal because it feels so intense. The truth is, they are feeling the intensity of their own love and need being reflected back to them. The narcissist is simply a mirror for your own ability to love. Because the narcissist is empty, the amount of love they can absorb is endless. As you are unknowingly pouring your own love into this empty black hole, you realize the depth of your own ability to love. People believe they are being loved in return because the narcissist is simply mirroring them. The truth is, they are receiving nothing. Whether this is a conscious plot of the narcissistic person is debatable in some cases, but it doesn't really matter. The reason that it doesn't matter is because it's toxic and abusive regardless. Whether they truly believe the things they are saying until it gets ruined by NOT being completely and utterly perfect, or whether it's all a scam from the jump, the end result is still the same. Narcissism is a spectrum and while their level of awareness can vary, the motivation for the behavior does not. Some narcissists - such as those on the very far end of the spectrum - are aware that they are purposely manipulating people at times and others are simply doing what they've always done with no self-awareness whatsoever. Both of these people are doing what they think they have to do to get their needs met, and neither care about the victim in this equation at all. This is why it doesn't matter if it's a conscious manipulation or not. Sometimes people get hung up on that, but it really, truly isn't important. Self-awareness does not affect the behavior, because you cannot force people to feel things they don't feel. Narcissists genuinely don't care. At all. Pathologically narcissistic people generally have no true empathy and see other human beings as objects to use. Even if they are among those end-spectrum narcissists who are aware of their behavior, it doesn't matter because the reason the behavior is wrong means nothing to them. They therefore have no reason to stop. This is the only way they can relate to others They devalue and discard for the same reason they idealize and love-bomb: because they are the only ones that matter. Love bombing is very painful because it results in devaluation. People have their defenses down and are not prepared for the inevitable fall from grace into abuse that happens.

I also think another factor was that Shanann was a very empathic type character and people who knew her have described her this way. Empaths find themselves entangled with Narcissists a disproportionate amount of the time. Empaths are people who are uniquely and exquisitely tuned in to the emotions of other people, even to the point of feeling these emotions. They are sensitive, kind and nurturing to a fault. They will unfailingly place the needs of other people before their own. This is a big reason they are attractive to narcissists. Narcissists are selfish, emotionally and morally bankrupt individuals who are unable to feel empathy for others in any true or meaningful way. They do not consider other people's feelings at all; indeed, they don't even realize other people have feelings in the same way that they themselves do. It doesn't seem to make sense that two such people would be even remotely attracted to each other, let alone form what can seem to be an unbreakable, almost fatal attraction-type of bond, but it happens - and frequently. At first glance, it's easy to see why the Narcissist is attracted to the Empath. Empaths are everything the Narcissist is not: kind, caring, emotionally aware, supportive, in control, able to have relationships and make friends... True to his nature, The Narcissist covets things he does not have and he endeavors to take them from anyone who does have them (or at least ruin them so that no one has them). The Empath gives freely of herself, making herself a glowing beacon for the Narcissist. It's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. He senses an emotional source he can leech off of nearly indefinitely, like a battery that never dies. He can take and take and take, and in return she will give and give and give. This is the nature of the relationship between the two and it will never change. The empath In the beginning, the powerful "vibe" the Narcissist gives off will resonate very deeply within the Empath. It catches her attention, and she is drawn to him as magnetically as he is drawn to her because of it. He may also be hard to read emotionally (his vibe is intense but it may be very distorted, like static on a TV where one cannot see the true picture) and since reading other people's emotional states is often very easy for the Empath to do, she may be drawn to him in spite of herself in an attempt to figure him out. Who is this guy? What's going on with him? What's he about? In short order, he will reveal his lifetime of abuse (real or embellished) along with a carefully-crafted commercial pitch showcasing how wonderful he is (usually not real) - and how wonderful she is, even though he just met her - and she will be effectively snared because she does not realize at first that the intense emotionality she is reading from him has nothing to do with her. It is all for himself. It would seem unlikely that the Empath would fall for this considering that she is very in tune with others' emotions and their true selves. Can't she see what he really is? The answer is yes, she can. Most Empaths sense something "wrong" about the Narcissist very quickly, sometimes during the first conversation. But she can also see something else, and it overrides everything else: how wounded and broken he is inside, beneath all the lies and abuse. He needs. It's not an act on his part or a mistake on the Empath's part; the Narcissist really is fundamentally wounded and broken inside. A large number of Narcissists are skilled at appearing helpless and lost. That's because in many ways, they truly are. Her mistake is in thinking she can help him. This is the attraction. She wants to help him. It is her fatal blind spot, because the Narcissist cannot be helped and more importantly, he does not want help. Yet even when she can see this clearly, his wounds are clearer. They are evident in everything he does, even in the horrible things. He is adept at making her believe she is the only one who can help him, or that she already has helped him. This is what she wants. It feeds her need to help, and no one is more convincing than the Narcissist when he is showering someone with praise or pushing their emotional buttons to get a response. She gives him the emotional sustenance he both wants and needs, allowing him to bask in the light of her care and attention all the time. It is a dangerously codependent relationship which revolves around superficially fulfilling the needs of only one person who can be neither satisfied nor happy. The Narcissist is like a cup with a hole in the bottom: no matter how much you pour into it, it is never enough. There is an important distinction to make here, however. We say "superficially fulfilling" because it is important to remember that the Empath's needs are being fulfilled, too, even if this does not seem to be the case. She is usually the obvious injured party in the relationship but she is a willing injured party; she has locked herself in a situation where she can perpetually "help" someone who will always need her. She has made a "career" out of taking care of a professional victim who does not want to get better. Lots of Narcissists are arrogant overachievers but most are crippled by their disorder in many ways, unable to function in the world normally in more than a very superficial way. The Empath sees an opportunity to take care of someone in perpetuity - and even if she doesn't want to, her caring nature can make her feel that she must. What will he do without her? It doesn't seem fair to abandon him, This is the Empath's nightmare: abandoning those who need her when she could have helped. That is the problem with her logic, though: she cannot help him. No one can. Since it is unrealistic to expect that the Narcissist possesses the insight to be able to recognize his problems, it is up to the Empath to recognize the situation and resolve it. The first (and most important) thing she must realize is that the only way to resolve the situation is to get out of it. That can be a very hard truth to face. No one wants to believe they have wasted years of their life on someone who literally does not care or appreciate it at all, but this is the trap the Empath finds herself in - especially when she is dealing with a Narcissist who (in his manipulative moments) swears this is not the case. Don't be fooled. It is the case, and it will never change. The Narcissist cannot and will not change. He is not capable of the type of emotion, empathy and compassion necessary to render him a fair, loving, satisfying partner - and he can never learn. He cannot learn how to be a "real" person. This ability is learned in the first few years of life. By the time the Empath meets the Narcissist, it is already far, far too late. He cannot be helped.

Oh she knew. There may have been some denial, but deep down she knew

Really? That does ring a bell actually. Wow! So maybe when he mentioned it was just about that being his motive and he was testing to see how they'd respond...

@@LiveAbuseFree She is talking about you I'm sure.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VWq2HnuUZ-8.html I would love it if you did a video on this woman. She's obsessed with the Chris Watts case, obsessed with Shanann, obsessed with Chris and his mother.

Chris actually told one of the people who visited him in prison that he had been daydreaming and fantasizing about killing Shanann for months - so you are correct.

Yeah very very weird

He wanted to get rid of her bc mummy dear didn’t approve

Because "Trauma". When someone has something traumatic they can repeat it, stutter, and even rock back and forth physically. it is a very instinctual way to self soothe from when you are an infant in a swing. I heard a woman whos son was a wife beater and child abuser say "We raised him well" over 100x because she needed to hold onto the delusion to keep the pain away. Seeing what you raised. Maybe taking a look at your part is more than these people can deal with so they blame others. Seen repetitive speech and behaviors including involuntary movements on many occasions. She is trying to convince herself.

So happy to hear your voice. How about your grandchildren voice and Shannon's from the grave and the soon to be newborn

Yes!!!

Yes. They treat him as if he was Abraham....

Ronnie "marble-mouth" mumbler Watts!

Baumhover was the wonderful Detective in this case! You were calling Ronnie "Boomhower" -- please explain what that term means. Anyway, I agree with what you noticed about this family. I tend to dislike how they are talking in these phone calls.

@@iadorenewyork1 lol i didn't realize the similarity to the detective's name. Boomhower was a character on the cartoon _King of the Hill_ who mumbled incoherently. Ronnie sounds like him, especially in the parts that you literally cannot understand a word he's saying.

Steve Masek -- Oh yeah, Boomhower on King of the Hill! He does mumble much like that character! You are right!

dont be sorry! they are evil....it needs to be told.

Hi John! Great to see you too, thank you! 😊