It always astonishes me what a great character Kat is (/s). She wears a sweatshirt with the hoody on but still has it open enough that her cleavage is visible, she stands silently in the background when Dante and Vergil talk and helplessly runs away and hides everytime demons show up so Donte can handle them. What a great female character. Unlike the "hooker with a gun" that is Lady, who fights herself through a apocolypse like event to take revenge only armed with the power of gun, who shoots Dante in the face during their first meeting falling down a tower and then proceeds to save herself. Then gets her own boss fight and finishes off the big bad.
Yeah, anticapitalist messaging that credits the evils of capitalism to not only a select few bad actors, but the literal cartoon devil, isn’t really anticapitalist.
You mean the great drama like the back and forth "fuck youuuuu", or Vergil aborting demon babies with sniper rifles? I've watched 5 parts so far, and I'm falling asleep.
"I just knew in my heart I wasn't crazy." Compared to DMC3 Dante, eating pizza, sliding on demons' faces, shooting his pistols shirtless, screaming about how the party is getting crazy after slamming a jukebox. If that isn't a comparison between these two Dantes I don't know what is.
"I'm not crazy", no, you are boring...this game is boring to watch. Basic enemies lack the coolness and memorability of 1, 3 and 4, The whole game is just sending me to sleep while I watch. Were it not for Chewie and Fuckface, most of us would not watch this.
@@MrDioXIII Hell, the enemies in DMC2 are more memorable than the ones in this game. How could you forget demonic helicopter and demonic tank? The only enemies I remembered in this game (prior to this LP) was the chainsaw guys and the "Fuck You" tumor boss.
I'm not saying this game would have been better if it involved Dante traveling to various Disney worlds to try and find his best friends. I'm just saying it wouldn't have hurt.
@@0rriAndroid That is a hill I, too, shall die on. Fedoras look cool--but the trilby is an abomination of fashion which never truly lived, and anyone who wears it is a jackass.
I thought the entire point in P5 was that "saving the world" was pointless if the world doesn't care that you saved it and doesn't change as a result. You can't just kick and scream and fight the system and tell everyone they're wrong and hope to achieve anything if you don't convince them that you're right. A single person can't change the world, he can only inspire the world to change itself.
Stupid thing 5: so the colour coded enemies were one of the worst things about combat encounters in the original release of DmC. There were some enemies that had a inherent weakness to certain weapons in DMC3, but in vanilla DmC you were flat out *not allowed* to use the "wrong" weapon on the wrong coloured enemy. This was such a massive flow breaker and I'm glad they removed it for the DE, but I still find it strange that _angel_ enemies are weak to _angel_ arms and _devil_ enemies are weak to _devil_ arms. I mean shouldn't that be the other way around; with light being weak to dark and dark being weak to light? It's so weird.
Finally someone said it!!! it's been bugging me since 2013 how they think demons are week to demon weapon only, and angels to angel weapons only... it should've been switched
@@HaitokuNoHonoo1000 Yeah I've been trying to think for an adequate answer that's not just _square block for a square hole_ too, but nothing has come to mind. I wonder whose idea it was to include them? Doesn't seem like it would have been Itsuno's idea.
steven contreras well if they missed something like that, then what else did they miss? And I'm sure taunts are the main draw for some people. Not crubabies.
steven contreras You say “fanboy” like being a fan of something is an insult. And the joke’s on you, really, because the people you look down on for being the minority got what they wanted: DMC V is in and this trash fire is out.
I thought P5 was more of a commentary about the broken Japanese judicial system and rebelling against it by going vigilante, rather than rebelling against society. I could be wrong, but I felt the game made that pretty clear with the main story and all of the dialogue and little quiz show moments.
@@PolarPhantom It's basically about inspiring change and rebellion by breaking society out of its apathy toward the corruption surrounding people and their willingness to accept that if it means a comfortable status quo where they don't have to think about things. The people themselves are directly enabling the corruption and conspiracy simply by being unwilling to acknowledge the corruption or question authority because they want to be controlled and led around like puppets instead of worrying about an uncertain and chaotic future, and so it is the mission of the heroes to change their hearts and persuade them to believe something better can be done and try to make it happen.
@@williamharmon4039 And this is why Spec Ops: The Line shits all over Persona's idiotic and idealist garbage because that game basically laughs at the idea that trying to inspire change like a hero would solve anything. Because, in reality, the people most likely to attempt to inspire change in the world, ALWAYS do so in a manner that only causes more harm than good. Also, note how there've been many sequels in the subseries and the theme remains the same(or at least, very similar) and that it revolves around "The Conspiracy" being repeated by both sides, the side that perpetuates it(the antagonists) and the side who attempts to stop and/or expose it(the protagonists). Perhaps Einstein and Vass were right about insanity being defined as doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Fun fact, there is no Saint Agares. Agares is the name of a demon that shows up in 15th century grimoires. So the church is dedicated to a demon. I don't know if that's subtle or dumb. Probably both.
@@irtazaazam2573 I'm tempted to think it's clever, it's just that it goes over everyone's heads. I only know about it because I looked up the name the first time I saw the scene. Game did need more of that and less "wake up, sheeple", though.
Positively Shakespearian. I'd even go so far as to call it this games analogue to the Agnus/Dante scene in DMC4, quite possibly the single most memorable and quotable moments of each of their games.
P5's core theme is not rebellion, it's freedom. Those may seem like the same thing at first, but rebellion requires someone in power oppressing some one else, while freedom is much more broad and also includes things like self expression, inner peace, and self improvement. Rebellion is certainly a part of the game, but the center core theme is freedom.
Mean the songs used in the series sum up alot of what's felt there. Especially the anime theme. Breaking in so we can break out? Do they pay attention or just have a weird perspective on things?
And even then, self-improvement is an idiotic endeavour if what you want to improve and express is in reality, a waste of your time. Which is what Bioshock 1 and 2 exposes.
I always took the ending of P5 as "It only matters if society remembers and learns from your attempts to change it." Because that point that happens, people are saying things like "The phantom thieves were all a hoax" and that shit, so society actually has to remember your attempts and change to meet it or else your efforts were for nothing. Or i'm completely wrong and don't remember because it's been months since I played it and I have a bad memory.
I took the ending to be ambiguous on whether society did change for the better even if you remove all the supernatural bullshit influencing them hence the 50:50 split, the game and the characters just chose to have a positive outlook on it.
The point of P5 was the importance of the civic duty and responsibility of the masses to stay involved in what's going on around them in order to combat the power hungry assholes who would gain said power and use it in service of their personal gain or twisted at the expense of those very masses. And that mass apathy would only make it trivially easy for those assholes to gain power and fuck up the lives of countless as Shido did and would've continued to do.
@@JJA8020 Yeah, and when you look at it in the context of real world Japan it's definitely a current issue with how apathetic the younger generations are with politics.
@@Chaos2Frozen thats not just japan. its a big problem in america too, but with how fucked things are, being apathetic is just easierthan trying to make a difference
@@MrInuhanyou123 To be fair, regardless of your viewpoint on the matter, Americans in the last 2 years are paying WAY MORE attention then they did just 3 years ago. Japan I dunno.
So at what point did the character designers think making the Succubus, literally the embodiment of sex-on-legs attraction and the word *_moist,_* the most unattractive and vile thing to ever exist in the history of forever a good idea?
@@posteriorpepperoni "See, she's a Succubus, but she's _ugly._ Boom. Expectations subverted, game is now good." Yeah but... If she's not sexy or seductive, or even feeding off of the desire of humanity either literally or figuratively, doesn't that mean she's NOT a Succubus? "...I plead all of the fiths."
In fairness, some versions of the myth had succubi that were ugly but used an illusion/shape shifting to appear attractive. You know, the classic honey trap -- monster appears as a sexy woman, then eats the man when his guard is down. They could have done a hybrid system, where you fight her as a sexy woman, but when she's wounded badly enough she reverts to her monster form.
It's me, the "How they could've made DmC good" guy, appearing again! So first off, as we start with the fatty enemy, that brings up interesting point. One of design artists for DmC, Dan Baker, has all the concept art for enemies on the Artstation and his blog. Guess what? They're fucking metal and good looking. You have an enemy that is just a specific body that is controlled by a head-spider, that resembles a helmet when controlling it. You got actual cool-ass looking beefer enemies. You got Flesh plague doctor looking guy that is surrounded by crows that also peck at his flesh, and you have many different variants on even the Stygian, making them more unnatural cyborg like, some animated by inner black tentacles in different way than what we got,, with varied weapons and just... They look cool. Not just slightly different and made as separate enemies like chainsaw guy, but just having variations on regular enemies and actually DIFFERENT enemies for different enemy types. You have enemies with spears riding, or maybe even attached to, giant bug with face on front. Multi-snake headed crab claw guy, a minotaur with bow. Most impressive one that didn't make the cut? A metal "fatty", except it seems like arms and legs attached to Iron Maiden, This boy has white-cyan energy running through his limbs and shining through eye holes and the vertical slit, because Iron Maiden opens... And inside, bound and powering it, is an angel with body bound by wire, or perhaps thorny vines even, portrayed as a being of energy, with wings but those wings being contained within the iron maiden. All of these are so good and impressive, but the Iron Maiden would give some more lore on ANGELS. The only angels we see genuinely in game are Eva, in human form, and those angels we see in difficulty selection screen and shop, and that shot of child Dante holding his mother's corpse. Taneem what the fuck, you have your protagonist be child of Angel and Demons and never do you explore the angels despite talking about how important it is that Dante is part angel part demon. Instead they just put generic horns and red elements on existing shield enemies in this factory mission, call it Hell Knight, and call it a day. The concept art designs would be memorable at least in some way. For the enemy designs that made it into game I wouldn't remember any of them. Dante, you were drinking Virility yourself. I can understand Dante being inexperienced or lacking formal higher education, but you can still be kind of smart, but not intelligent. Why are you such an idiot. Furthermore... Okay, I don't have problem with Dante not liking authority and even taking part in riots or violent protests. I have issue with trying to make him look cool by going "OH HE DECAPITATED A DEMON AND HELD IT BY ITS HAIR AS A CHILD HE'S AWESOME!". It'd be better to make him more traumatized and show him curled up or shivering, maybe horrified or unsure next to a decapitated demon body, as he sees that it is a demon. The shot with him being on throne surrounded by naked angels was also completely unnecessary. What is it even supposed to portray? Are we supposed to believe he managed to sex up so many girls at same time? The "dig a nail into heart' shot was just too edgy. I get that he was meant to be, but you know what would show this better? Continuing tradition of Dante being pierced by fucking sword or anything, especially by accident, and this Dante being confused that he is alive after having his heart pierced. The thing with Dante... They wanted to make him serious as shown in first trailer, but people wanted old Dante. Instead of getting Old Dante, they tried to make a wise-cracking Dante out of the Dante that might have fit even this plot and stuff better, and through that he became diluted, not comitting to anything and doing BOTH badly. Now, Kat talks about Out of Body experience to travel Limbo... Why not have some trauma or such expel her astral body or soul into limbo, leaving her regular body defenseless like it's Bleach, and showing some crazy cool looking spirit form that represents her inner demons, issues, personality or even an idealized version of herself? No, instead we have her do NOTHING. Yes I know she does... some things, but it's not enough to make us consider her useful, everyone even now wonders "Did Kat even do anything in this game after Molotov?" or opening portals. But one interesting thing... Look at Dante's face and reaction when Kat talks about going to Limbo to escape her nightmares. He actually is confused, surprised. Limbo is a terrible terrible place and he realized that if she considered it an escape from nightmares... How bad were the nightmares. Dante actually showed something on his face there. Why not do more of that?! Now, I know it's video game mechanics but considering how this was meant to have more story and lore, or at least it was promised, why not explain why there are just random Angel Ophion grappling points. I can understand Demon ones, but how do demons traverse the Limbo'd Slurm factory? Hell, They could've explained it as Dante's presence as nephilim forcing changes on environment, but while we're on topic of Limbo... We see Kat in first mission talk to Dante as he's in Limbo. The Limbo there didn't differ much from actual world. But people just ignore, don't even point or say anything as Kat is posing and yelling in middle of street. It'd make her more of character if we saw ridicule or issues she faces by trying to interact with Limbo like that. Or even have some funny moments. They could've done a Bayonetta style moment when she threw her Molotov where it would show it dissappearing through portal or something from Real World into Limbo to hurt the Hunter. But that's not now. What is now is that we see Limbo area looking completely different from real world, and she's looking right at Dante... and she was on solid floor, Dante was below her. Does it mean she can Limbo through walls, floors and ceilings? Show us how she sees it, it could've looked cool to layer one world on another. And speaking of that... Virility is made from Succubus and the fat people containers represent real containers in real world... So which is which? Does creating an object in real World create a "True" equivalent of it in Limbo, or a metaphorical representation of it there? It would have been easily explained if there were some demonic circles, runes, something added, to show that it is how it is masked into real world. I get that it is taken from They Live, but we see Limbo is a physically different world, with changed locations, rather than just illusion as it is in the They Live. And the "FUCK YOU DANTE" just makes you groan. I get it that they're demons but aren't they thousands of years old, if not at least hundreds? If this game is trying to show authority is bad and corrupt, make those appearing words actually seem like it's someone stuck up their own ass, rather than just resorting to regular teen-like swearing. Succubus... I get that she is portrayed as ugly, disgusting hag that produces the slime, but why not have her some form of illusion that makes her look pretty or do something like Bael, where she has a lure and tries to bait Dante with sex and stuff, forcing him to choose or show that he knows what's important? SHE'S A FUCKING SUCCUBUS. AT LEAST HAVE SOMETHING REMAIN FROM WHAT IT IS ASSOCIATED WITH. Granted, they most likely just wanted to make it clear Virility is bad and disgusting. Because if it was fluids of a sexy succubus, everyone would be like "Okay, and that's bad HOW?". We're all degenerates I won't talk about color coded enemies as this got fixed in definitive edition, other than that it feels like Blue and cyan stuff should have some angelic connections, perhaps made from angels or such? But yeah, it still feels like you should attack an enemy with its opposite, rather than its color, to deal more damage. DMC3 did have elemental weaknesses. But yeah, the theme of this game and the "wake up sheeple" feels like it already aged while they were developing the game. This is why you try not to make a game that cashes in on the NOW, unless it will be something that won't age badly. I will give it props for making it so that Delayed third Arbiter strike gives Dante a Nero-esque Stand that also repeats his move, but couldn't they have made it demonic looking since it's demonic weapon, instead of just a red transparent delayed Dante?
I haven't the attention span to read this entire comment at this moment, but I am leaving a reply to get notifications on this thread. Like RU-vid, give us some way to save comments or something
Dante being a stupid douchebag in this game sorta makes sense, if I remember the story right. Vergil got adopted by a good family, but Dante got stuck in an orphanage run by demons or something. I think he fought back and eventually ran away, so he probably didn't even finish his Middle School education equivalent.
I haven't played Persona 5... but honestly? Wanting to make a better society doesn't sound like a terrible idea. Why can't freedom coexist with community? I think others in the comments have put it better than me.
The reason freedom cannot really coexist with community is because one must be placed higher than the other. and if one is higher than the other than the other suffers. You cannot have a community that is a Utopia without sacrificing most of it if not all of an individual's rights as a person. You cannot have a Utopia where peace and Harmony are the norm if your society focuses on the individual's rights.
DANGIT PAT GREEN ORBS ON THE WALLS, INSIDE THE COCOONS. THE COLORS ARE SO DULL PEOPLE DIDNT SEE IT BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY MISTAKE THEM AS PART OF THE SCENERY AND NOT A DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT ... Sorry for the all caps, I just want Pat and Woolie to see this.
While I do miss the red jacket in this version, I actually don't mind the black hair. I think it serves as decent symbolism for Dante embracing his human side more than his demon side, but as he goes up against greater dangers he's forced to tap into that demon side more. Ultimately the white hair would show that he's embraced his demon side, even if reluctantly. Too bad DmC Dante is half angel, meaning that the "more in tune with his human side" symbolism doesn't work here.
I've been thinking about this since he talked about the question of "still being human" early in the episode. The man has zero human blood, what does he know? Also why does Vergil still have his original hair colour?
@@siefer117 probably for the same reason Dantes hair turns white at the end of this game. Vergil probably went through something similar that caused him to fully unlock his nephilim powers some time in the past.
@@siefer117 Well, it might be a mental thing, where Dante has lived with humans for so long that he identifies more with them than he does his angel brethren. It's questionable if angels or demons would accept him, given his mixed heritage so it might be a self imposed delusion on his part to make him feel like he belongs somewhere. It's a shame that angels don't show up in this game beyond backstory mentions, and one vision of Eva where she talks to Dante. Because I'd like to know what angels think of the world being conquered by demons, and what they think of a legendary demon like Sparda mating with a member of their own kind. Since they're nowhere to be seen, we can only speculate what they think about any of this.
@@megamonmon I was saying that conceptually the black hair would have worked well for classic Dante. I even mention at the bottom of the paragraph that it doesn't work for DmC Dante because he's half angel half demon.
They also made fun of the part where Dante said he'd never forgot about his mother's death and laughing at the idea that he did forget, ignoring the part where no more than 10 seconds later he stated that Sparta erased his and Virgil's memories.
>They also made fun of the part where Dante said he'd never forgot about his mother's death and laughing at the idea that he did forget, ignoring the part where no more than 10 seconds later he stated that Sparta erased his and Virgil's memories. They're saying that it's silly to have Dante say "I'll never forget" after showing us that he DID forget. Yeah, Sparda made him forget, but he still forgot.
Anyone else think Dante should of got a costume change, not counting the white hair? Dante dresses like he doesn't care and he stumbles during some Rebellion attacks to show his lack of fucks. His design actually fits his character great for the first half but doesn't work as good on the second half.
The whole game should get a costume change. Donte looks like he doesn't give a fuck, the main enemies are no different from one another, it's guy with shield, guy with wings, fat guy. The bosses are unmemorable in design, maybe with the exception of the news guy, the combat looks slow...just...fuck this game.
Regarding the Taunt Button, in a Capcom stream, Capcom said Ninja Theory didn't want players to taunt in serious battles (like Mundus, Vergil etc) that somewhat makes sense but the better fix would have been to have the taunts be contextual to the fights/enemies, that would actually be a smart idea. I think the real reason is NT sneered at the concept, we know Capcom were the ones who insisted NT had to change Dante so much but from what I can tell Capcom didn't make them dumb down the mechanics and remove stuff like lock-on, taunt, etc. That felt like NT making executive decisions to remove mechanics they didn't like despite being mainstays of the series and vital to the combat system.
The problem is that the only fight he doesn't taunt in the cutscenes is Vergil, everyone else, he taunts, so removing an entire classic feature because of one fight, a bad choice.
Because it's literally on record in interviews that Capcom mandated DmC be a "western reboot" and that the new dante had to be an "extreme redesign" kotaku.com/5644446/shirtless-and-suspendered-the-dante-that-almost-was Also see Ninja Theory's "The Art Direction of DmC' GDC presentation where the art director goes through working with Capcom and their reject designs that were more faithful, it's all on record, the Foxcade video you're referencing wasn't just made up lol.
@@TheDapperCat Thank you for going out of your way to provide the sources! I've been seeing a lot of people mention all the capcom and NT stuff and I've been pretty confused where it all was coming from
His taunts would be how weakass these demons are, like i remember some enemies from this and i always thought "man normal Dante would be smashing these things into the ground."
@@ThatWeirdGuyFromWork You mean the guy who can take swords through the chest like nobodies business, who can run down the side of a tower, thrown his sword, and shoot the sword to speed it up to terminal velocity? Who knows, maybe he would get eaten alive in this new universe, the boredom and edge might just parasitically suck the life out of him...kinda like this game did to the DMC brand.
Hold on... that is what you got from p5? I got a complete different message. In the end the story is about individuality and conflict versus collectivism and harmony. But the story seems to come pretty heavily down on the side of iindividuality. You literally kill a God that was made from the desire of humanity to be ruled over. Like that's pretty blatant
Yeah I don't know how Woolie got that from p5's ending. The characters learn that you don't have to "ruin" yourself to fit in, you just have to accept yourself and you will find your place in society. It is still very critical of that "hammering down the nail that sticks out" that he mentioned.
They also completely misunderstood Bioshock ("the dangers of idealism" are you for fucking real?) and They Live. They're really bad at getting the message.
@@BurnTheDemon *Satanael. I don't remember the specific details but he's different from the original Satan. It basically a big role reversal where Jaldabaoth is a false god created by God and Satanael rebels against the false god. Not exactly "Satan kills god haha hail satan".
So now alongside MOOOOOOOTHER and FAAAAAAAAATHER we also have SIIIIIIIIIISTER/BROOOOOOTHER. Honestly the only thing missing is a SOOOOOOOOON from Virgil XD
@@GohanEgret Idk, I think it fits the character. I will say this, out of all the things I've seen people criticize this game for the voice actors aren't one. The script, absolutely, but the acting itself? Pretty solid.
@@Graysett His indifference is fine before he runs into Kat. But after he gets into her car and properly starts his journey, he remembers so much of his past -- he has a brother, his mother was murdered, and his father is doomed to eternal torture. And there's just no anger or shock there. I suppose his rough upbringing can justify his numbness, but then why even continue on this crusade against Mundus?
@@GohanEgret Bad writing/dumb plot points. It's a pretty clear case of things happening because the author needs them to happen instead of anything that'd logically follow.
@@GohanEgret Revenge would make the most sense, and they make it pretty clear in his mother's death scene where he used he'd never forgot (yeah the two of them ripped on that and ignored the part where his memories were erased by Sparta). Second idea would be that he is starting to care about humans, now that he sees what the demons have been doing to them, and it get make clear later on in the game.
I think Persona 5 was a much better rebellion story than DmC, cause at least it only fumbled around the end. The majority of the story is saying "people shouldn't be allowed to get away with ruining a good/innocent person's life just because they're rich, a celebrity, or has a high social standing" which I assume most people would agree with. DmC makes parallels to the real world where the demons control us with stuff like soft drinks that are spiked with stuff that will make us fat and dumb or complacent, and the news is formatted to sell the public lies and hide the truth. Take out the demons and only look at those parallels, now the problem is, their message is to rebel against real world conspiracies! In the world of this story and game, those conspiracies turn out to be true, demons are using these things to rule the world from the shadows. In the real world however, these conspiracies might not be true, and if they are true, they're probably not as bad as something ridiculous like the demons in this game. Persona 5 is more like rebelling against a hypothetical society, with situations that may be possible in the real world, in fact, if I paid more attention to politics and current events, I might notice more things like what happens in P5 have happened. In Persona 5, the main cast are teenagers who are almost fucked over by greedy adults. For an example of what "things" I'm talking about that happen in the game, your main character tries to stand up to a drunk politician who is forcing a woman into his car, he falls, says you assaulted him, and you get arrested. To reiterate, this man tried to potentially rape a woman, and because he has certain power in society, you get arrested, have a criminal record, and are on probation, and because of that criminal record, only one high school accepts you for transfer, so I wouldn't imagine any better luck with college or finding a career. The only real world example I can think of is where a man murdered someone, then blamed and testified that it was a married couple (who might have given him a ride when he was hitchhiking after the murder or something like that), due to time and circumstance they are convicted, but after the husband is put to death the man turns himself in. The couple had a child, that kid lost their father because this man blamed their parents for his crime and they were convicted. The society in Persona 5 is one where things like this happen, not because of bad luck, but because the perpetrator is rich, famous, a politician, or simply liked by society, so they have the power to sweep their crimes under the rug by ruining someone else's lives. I think I'd rebel against this society if I lived in it.
I do agree on this. But the point of my comment is that the conspiracies in DmC (with exception of the demon part) are very real. Spiked drinks? Sugar. News? Most of it is biased either to a moral view or a political one. But as I said, the hypothetical nature of P5 does make it more entertaining as you stated.
Honestly, I feel it works better because it's not outright rejecting society as much as it is trying to improve on it. There are some unsavory elements that the system itself can not deal with (like Shido), and so the Phantom Thieves have to take it upon themselves to rid society of them. It's not unlike, say, Batman, in that regard. Society isn't inherently a bad thing, you just need to be proactive, and keep the wrong people from getting hold of the reigns. Really, it's not even about rebellion, it's about freedom.
As an aside and likely a tangent, P5 kind of infuriated me because at times it sort of felt like it wanted to say profound but decided not to, and missed some pretty huge opportunities. Like, maybe having an online poll determine our targets is probably not the best idea.
Woah hold up... Friendly fire? So Fiery red enemies, the ones only hurt by your red demonic weapons, can be frozen by other enemies' ice attacks? But not harmed by your angelic or normal weapons and vice versa? Huh?
P5 is wild cause it wanted a comfortable happy ending and a massive metaphor for libertarian socialist/anti capitalist rhetoric one after another, so instead of Joker actually enacting substantial change to Japan, he just puts it back where it was, lets his mates work through the system to bail him out and ends by saying that society is now fine even though nothing has changed. We don't even see much advocation for politcal change through protest against the failures of the system we see in the game, even though such protest is active and daily in Japan IRL. It's nuts.
They could only go so far. It is a game licensed by AAA developers, after all. Your based social commentary can’t be TOO communist, or else Papa Koei Tecmo’d be breaking down your door.
Well to be fair, that was a younger Dante who couldn't think clearly because he was hooked on pizza and wanting to fight his brother in the rain...……..shirtless.
The writers are literally demonizing the things they think are bad. The demons are a heavy-handed metaphor for "not good." that's it. thrilling. sounds like an idea I had in high school. fuck.
Buffy used demons and monsters as metaphors for vices but they were actually done really well while the metaphors here are hamfisted and don't correlate well in any meaningful way.
That soma energy drink must really work, otherwise nobody could look at Bob Barbas and think "that's totally a human and not 6 million locusts sewn into a human sack"
With the way the "normal" environments are colored and lit, I keep thinking Jack Cayman and the Blacker Baron are gonna burst into the scene, throwing hands. Though Anarchy Reigns/MadWorld X Devil May Cry would be pretty awesome.
These DMC playthroughs have inspired me to replay through DMC 3 and 4 alongside the LPs. But this....I can't follow you guys on this one. I'm just going to sit to the side this time.
It ain't a bad game. The main issue would be whether the characters annoy you enough to put you off. I just imagine everything is meant to be cheesy and it makes everything a lot more bearable. You can also try imagining Spanish Donte's voice the entire time.
@@5133pp1z I refuse to play it again because the characters are all awful. If all the cut scenes were removed maybe I'd play it again but I just can't stand Dino's unlikable edgy shitheel attitude, Virgin's smug god complex, Kat's bland nothingness, and Mundane's lameness.
Man, I love how this game's like "if you're mentally abused by someone and pushing them away because you think they're all monsters, and people try and put you on meds, fuck em! You're right, they *are* monsters." Probably not intentional but double check your scripts guys XD
Persona 5's theme of rebellion is not hard to understand. Rebel against a corrupt system. Once you feel you have fixed the problem you rejoin it. Not that complicated guys.
Guys...guys, really. Persona 5 is NOT about rebellion or fixing society. Those are events in the plot. The core theme of P5 is individualism. All the people with Palaces were people who got too big an ego, but by destroying the Palaces, the Phantom Thieves were consigning them back to Mementos and into the collective consciousness, thus empowering our real main villain. And it's only by getting people to support them on an individual level that they're able to pull it through. P5 is about refusing to lose who you are, because nothing good can come from it, ie when the group lost sight of their goal and started just hitting popular targets. The core theme isn't anything to do with rebellion. That's just a thing that happens.
Alright, maybe I'm about to come off as gross, but I fail to see the issue with Nero. Kiriya or however you spell it wasn't his sister by blood, they aren't actual family by that definition.
@@cyberninjazero5659 Not really, that sort of thing isnt my thing. I mean, I've got my things, don't get me wrong, that just isn't it. I personally just don't understand what's particularly wrong about it when they're not technically family and share no blood.
you also have to take in the fact that even though Nero kirie and crato were raised together crato was about to happily kill him because an old guy said so. Meaning that Nero being raised with Kerie and creto might have been a bit of a stretch. Maybe their parents just let Nero use the house every now and again, or fed him once in awhile.
It's mostly just funny how DMC has so much "incestual" stuff. Like, it really skirts the issue. To be frank, I don't think there's too much of an issue here. Nero lost his parents as a child to demons and so was taken in by Kyrie's family. I don't know how old he was, but probably not old enough to properly see her as his sister. Like, he knew his "real" parents.
@@PolarPhantom Does it really though? Dante shows love for Trish sure, but I only took that as a miss guided familial love since she looks like his mother (Not actually his mother) plus he's never had sex with her (Dante not being that sort of character, at least not original) and has never actually shown interest in that, at least not on screen. Nero likewise, well.... Kyrie's not his blood like I said before, shrugs.
Everything you said about the masses and the Phantom Thieves was literally the end game of the big bad. It's about balance: the IDEA of the PT just like God.
It's beautiful to watch everyone anticipating the moment dino snaps and gets into a 12 year old style shouting match with a demon. I feel like it's this games version "fill your dark soul up with liiiiiiiiight!"
The whole point of the ending is that they got too wrapped up in their popularity and in essence became what they hated, but they realized it came to their senses and defeated yalbadaoth and shido
In some scenes they made Kat at least attempt to keep it down when she's (seemingly) talking to empty air in public. But it's not that old of a game that they couldn't give her one of those headphone mics and mime talking on the phone instead. Since, you know, it's supposed to be about trying to not attract attention of the demons watching the public and all that. But that'd actually make sense.
I forgot the weird creepy flashbacks in this mission. This mission reminds me of what I hate most about this game. That flashback scene is literally dante running away from an orphanage because of the demons (, so that he can kill demons for fun. That's cool and all. However, they clearly show Dante talking about beating up cops and killing them. It shows an ENTIRE riot team Surrounding Dante in riot gear while he's talking about killing and murdering demons because he likes it. Also, that scene with the women is clearly a Brothel. No place just has see through curtains on the edge of a bedroom that has no windows. He is having sex with prostitutes. He has to have a job to do that yet the only thing shown that gets him money would be beating up the police. One in an angel (?) prostitute somehow which makes no sense still. Most of imagery here makes this dante look like a blatant murdering psychopath and quite frankly a rapist. Most female prostitutes don't have sex with kids in professional establishments don't have sex with kids? Why not you ask? Because it's fucked up and they agree it's fucked up. How is he having sex with 6 prostitutes, one of which is an angel that presumably has things to do, and whose prescence would be highly monitored in this demon society. when he has no money and the women in the establishment don't have sex with 12-15 year olds? Furthermore, if an angel is there, they know he can just murder them on a whim if he gets upset. That's super rapey and wrong. You shouldn't be intimidating women to have sex with you with threats of physical violence. I don't like this version of dante where they passively reveal he may be the worst of all possible people casually and then just move on from it.
I kinda agree with you, but I also think that you might be thinking too much about a scene that is meant to show how cool, hip and rebellious this Dante is.
It's meant to show how cool and hip and rebellious he is and it doesn't show any of that. You can't just put a laugh track over the big bang theory and make it comedy. You can't just put dark brown reds and blacks over rape and make it cool
I feel like the more urban the area you're in the more the accent shifts towards general North American. That being said, hearing a hard "aboot" coming from anyone's mouth is still a fucking head turner.
the western version of the weird P5 tonal rollercoaster would be championing freedom and independance by selling the world to a tyrannical dictator because they said they wouldn't do bad things.
Yal Rathol There are no authoritarians on the left. You can’t advocate for collective ownership over the means of production, but still put yourself on top of the heap. You’d just be a right-wing authoritarian who’s too ashamed to admit it.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick never read up on your communism, i see. communism as envisioned by karl marx requires a step where an absolute authoritarian government reeducates the populace into being good people, then just gives up power and goes away. this is why people say "communism has never been tried", because no communist government has ever gotten past that step. maoism, stalinism, they're different words for that stage of communism. so yes, there is such a thing as "authoritarian left", they're the communists. marx had some good points, but as you can see, he was something of a blinded idealist.
So like, legitimate question. Why are critiques about some things in this game OK in others ? Like I saw a lot of people rag on the soda in the trash can scene for trying too hard to make Donte look cool, but then there is the intro to the 3rd game. Or how the new god of war had "So many unique enemies" despite it doing literally the same thing as this game with roughly the same number of enemy types, just in different elements, and even having the bounce mechanic on same element foes that so many people hated in this one. It feels like people are just riding the hate bandwagon instead of actually taking a critical eye. Yeah it's edgy, the monster design leaves a lot to be desired and the platforming is mediocre at best , but it's also got really good combat, some great quality of life improvements, as well as some themes (not all of them mind you) that are still pretty relevant to stuff happening today despite what people say.
You're pretty much right. This game gets hated on almost entirely because of the fact that it's a game bearing the Devil May Cry title. Even throughout this LP while they have given legitimate criticisms there's nothing that woolie or pat has said that they disliked or hated that they didnt directly or indirectly compare to the other games in the series. This game is literally NOT allowed to stand on its own merit by most people who are fans of the DMC series, it also didn't help that the PR for this game was a disaster but that was a whole other issue this game was plagued with. I for one wasn't thrilled with this game initially but after beating it I honestly couldn't compare it to the original series because of how different it was and when I came to that conclusion I felt it wasn't that bad and the definitive edition actually made me love the game.
A lot of hate comes from its old mechanical failings and the rest comes from taking a beloved franchise and running in the opposite direction while insulting fans. Like the game garnered hate. And despite the fixes the characters lack likability compared to the old ones and the story is so on the nose that it is often obnoxious. It honestly might just be massive disappointment manifesting as hate. Things that do hated elements from this often improve on the idea and polish it into something altogether better. But here the idea feels half baked at best.
Soda in the trash is nowhere near the ridiculousness of DMC3's intro. DMC3's intro is so over the top it loops around to being cool, but the soda thing for instance comes off like some edgy teen's idea of being cool. And really that's the problem, what the game thinks is "cool" is edgy stuff that comes off as stupid/immature to most people, whereas previous games just leaned so far into doing their own thing that they ended up being cool. Like Kat. "Man, wouldn't it be cool to have a big titty goth girl who does magic sometimes with graffiti (okay, yes actually, but sure as fuck not Kat)?" Compare that to Lady. "Man, wouldn't it be cool to have a schoolgirl on a motorcycle killing demons with a bunch of guns and a rocket launcher that has a grappling hook attached?" Or for the ultimate example, DMC3 Virgil compared to DmC Virgil (Though I admit, I actually like DmC's Virgil design, with or without the hat). Or how DMC3/4's Dante taunts bosses in cutscenes compared to DmC's. Too much "trying to look cool" instead of actually BEING cool. The GoW4 thing they specifically mentioned meant design as in the actual look of those enemies. Yes both games do the same "Normal guy, blue version (ice btw), red version (fire btw)" thing, but the actual DESIGN of the enemy itself is more memorable. For example, I can remember what all of GoW4's enemies look like right now even though I haven't played through the game myself or watched anyone play it since like 2 months after its release. I CAN'T remember what the DmC enemies look like despite just having seen them again 2 hours ago, because the designs themselves are literally that boring and forgettable. Except for the fat guys, not sure why, big dumb fat guy that runs at you is super common. The color coded bounce thing was also covered in a previous episode. They straight up said it's bad mechanic in an action game like this regardless of what game it is, and i'm sure if you brought this point up to them they'd be like "Yeah, its addition makes GoW4's combat worse" instead of excusing it because it's in a game that isn't DmC. As for the other stuff, I don't really wanna get into it so I'll just speed run it. Combat: Yeah, it's good. Like objectively so. It's superior to DMC1 and DMC2 at least. The enemy design (as in fighting them) isn't great, no one is gonna mark out over fighting a Hell Knight like people do for the Angelo's or the Abyss's (the end game red and white demon dudes in DMC3), but the combat system itself is solid. QoL: Idk, I can't think of any because i literally don't know what you're talking about. I'm not saying they don't exist, i'm saying that I'm not aware of what you're thinking of. Themes: Most of the complaints about the theming in this game isn't even that they're bad themes, it's that they're executed so blatantly and poorly and that it's taking itself way too seriously for it to really work. It's like someone who's just okay at writing thinking they've created a masterpiece of a story that really speaks to the heart, and then you read it and it's just "alright fan-fiction" tier. Maybe the themes they were trying for were good, but the writing itself wasn't good enough to "sell" it to most of its audience, so they look fucking dumb for even trying. Compare that to DMC3 and 4 where, yeah, it's over the top and hammy, but it's actually executed well enough that people get invested in it anyway. For proof, just look at how each of these 3 games (DMC3, DMC4, DmC) treat the theme of "Family is important". - But that's all just, like, my opinion man. Like a lot of people have said, if this game was released on its own it would've been perfectly fine and there'd probably be two sequels to it by now, but because it was released as a DMC game and how the PR went it was held up to a much higher standard because it was directly competing with the IP's... legacy for lack of a better word. It's like if FROM handed Dark Souls or Bloodborne to someone new and then they released a reboot or a spinoff. It's gonna be scrutinized way more than it would've if it had just been released on its own as another Soulslike. Unless they blow it out of the park (like say, Fallout New Vegas compared to Fallout 3), they're in for a stressful ride.
Since Nero is younger than Kyrie(by like a year or something) for all intents and purposes Nero should cry out "ONee san..." Or "BIg sister"... they're still legally siblings after all
It's still funny though. Like, neither Dante nor the writers seem to have any concept of the irony here. If Kat said "...And weren't you chugging it away back there?" and Donte replied "...It tastes good." then it would be fine.
It would have been even more fine if even after Dante knew the real purpose of Virtility, he still drank it because it tastes good. It’s not so much a contradiction so much so it’s a missed opportunity to make Dante a fun character.
It comes off as if he thinks he is better than everyone else for knowing what Virility actually does, despite him drinking it just as eagerly before and freaking out once he found out how bad it actually is. He would have been one of the idiots hooked on Virility if it wasn't for his Demon/Angel sides making him immune to it. "How do people fall for this crap?" Easy Dante, Virility dulls your mind and turns you stupid the more you drink it, had you not been special you would have been just like that fat guy on the street chugging it down!
@@jman2856 that reminded me of the bread video for tf2. The heavy just kept eating the sandvich even after seeing a green pulsating blob from the loaf he's usually eating
I also agree that the themes of "wake up sheeple" are strong and not subtle in this game, but i think it's one's fault to take them too seriously when it's so cartoonish. That's why i enjoyed this game, i just went with the flow while fucking up demons; besides, the edge can be fun if you learn to loose up and laugh
The issue is then the original intent vs how you are enjoying it. Laugh at how edgey it is at you want, but that doesn't make the question of whether or not the Ninja Theory intended to make you laugh or make you think disappear.
@@siefer117 yeah, there are issues, but i'm talking about personal perspective and not about the devs intent. Still, if i had to say something about it, it's all so cartoonish and obviously exagerated that i can't take it seriously even if they intended it, wich is why it never bothered me so much. Not saying the story/writing deserves a pass tho, hopefuly 5 is better
Why didn't they just make a spraypaint entrance in the big open room with all the vats? Instead of having Dante fuck around in the boiler room and the warehouse for like 30 minutes before literally WALKING BACK to the big open room where he says " Oh I guess I need to go down from here."
Im amazed at how generic everything is about this game, especially the enemy designs, has american games ever done cool enemy designs in anything? ever? i could only think about the bosses of soul reaver and some enemies from god of war 1 and 2.....
Technically speaking this game is... English? British? I'm too ignorant to care. Doom 2016 had some good demon designs. Generic in a lot of ways, but you can instantly recognize its source if you suddenly saw it again for the first time 10 years later.
I mean a lot of studios have Anerican offices that worked on games developed in other countries Also I'd argue Ratchet and clank had good enemy design, and Halo had the covenant and flood which are pretty instantly recognizable Like I'd argue American made game only seen to have generic enemies because the mythos, lores, and legends used are so vividly familiar. Like it's easier to make a Japanese God stand out as an enemy then a Greek good because familiarity
Oh, well if we're getting into ALL kinds of enemies instead of just "demonic" ones then yeah, there are loads of them. The Darksiders games have a bunch for instance. EDIT: Okay, it took me about 3 seconds after posting that to realize i said "instead of just demonic" and then went straight to Darksiders, which is a game chock full of demons. Whoopsies.
5:20 i have no basis, but i assume it just tastes good. Like a person that eats carrots a lot and someone asks "you eat them to improve your eyesight or something?" and that person goes "nah, i just like 'em"
