I dunno. I think I prefer the reveal that Vergil just always sucked and sees nothing wrong with his fucked up worldview because, y'know, THAT'S BASICALLY WHO HE IS IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION TOO. Like, Vergil never using his powers and gaslighting everyone until Mundus is open for the kill makes sense because he's an asshole and his friends and family are tools to be used. It's not written well here, but the IDEA works.
DINO and Vergin duke it out shirtless in the open destruction and debris while a gothstitue with a spray can of squirrel nut watches in a state of confusion not unlike the player.
Funny thing about that meme is that in most Superhero movies, it's not really the heroes' fault. They did the best they could and the collateral damage was unavoidable. And most importantly, the Heroes didn't instigate the fight. They didn't cause it. But in this case, all the damage and destruction that came about from that was 110% CAUSED by Dante and Vergil. They're the single reason why billions of people are being murdered. Which couldn't make them standing over the destruction saying "We did it." make any less sense.
@@phantomslay5612 worse because he does actually have a point Humans will need a lead that has experience fighting demons now that they got invaded by them
@@Minority119 But even that’s not done well because as we see Vergin sucks at fighting and only got anything done because Donte and Kat did all the work.
No it's actually the complete opposite. 1. He thought Dino was onboard to rule from the get go like some weird unspoken promise or someshit. 2. He picked a fight with Dino when he should've known he would lose
The office scene with Mundus is one of the few genuinely meaningful moments in the story, and it's a shame that the story didn't focus more on that angle. The idea that Mundus has some minor degree of affection for humans, and doesn't desire to see them destroy themselves -- even if he must be a tyrant -- gives the character more depth than the generic evil overlord he was in the classic series. I would have loved to see the story give nuance on both sides; that yes, the humans are immature and weak and Mundus has prevented some truly dire disasters for them, but on the other hand they'll never be able to grow or evolve so long as Mundus' iron fist weighs down on them. You could have Dante be the arbiter of justice, pointing out that the justice Sparda awoke to and the value he saw in humanity was there all along if only Mundus could see it. In short, this concept would have made for a great ideological rivalry between classic Sparda and Mundus; with Dante being the successor to Sparda's will, come back to oppose Mundus a second time when the father couldn't be there to confront Mundus this time. It's a shame that this universe's Sparda didn't wage a rebellion two thousand years ago, thus making such symbolism as I've described meaningless.
Too bad that this game and other games or even movies or books like it don't put the foresight to add that kind of commentary earlier on before the ending. Remember in the matrix when Neo and one of the Council members are talking and how the Council guy talks about how even though Machines are trying to kill them, they still need them for their lives and how its the other way around for the Matrix showing things won't just get better by destroying it, even near the end we the actual leader of the matrix scared of what could happen and Neo offers to help. Showing the perspective and giving subtle hints to the reasoning and ideology of a villain and having act like people rather than just morons and angry for the plot, especially in this kind of setting, is important. As long as you don't wait until the end to do it.
The truth about Vergil is that he wasn't an action character in this game, he was an RPG character. He got all the exp from Dante's battles and finally leveled himself up for the final fight.
It fits so well even with the existing themes of the story. Mundus's control of the world is entirely based on order or some sort of divine mandate or just raw accumulation of power by whatever means. Vergil begins the game with little to no ability. He is constantly needing to be saved or helped and lives in the shadow not just of dante but the massively powerful Mundus who controls society. That totally fits in with his use of underhanded tactics. He couldnt do it any other way. But if he were to suddenly gain the power he always wanted in a sudden burst rather than gradually it would lead him to draw all sorts of conclusions about its use. Maybe have them both react with horror at what the world becomes after Mundus is slain, and have Vergil come to the conclusion that the only way to keep people safe is to grasp power, like mundus. You know.. have it grow organically.
Adding ideas to Woolie's fix of the ending - what if Vergil's doppelganger had a third eye to show it was more Mundus-based power that he took into himself
it was just a regular Judgement nut since it was a single target, if it was a judgement nut end the whole town of fortuna would be overun by lots of little neros running around
So Phineas as a character just got completely dropped, did anybody else notice that? He was present for like 2 missions where he sort of bonded with Dante and acted as a mentor figure, then beyond being mentioned by Dante as the source of his knowledge about Mundus' child he's never shown or mentioned again. I'm not alone feeling they intended to do way more with him right?
Personally I headcanoned him as the one who ratted our Eva and Sparda to Mundus and Mundus locked him away because his “eye” let Phineas see things that Mundus didn’t want anyone to see. Like his unborn child for example.
In hindsight I think Vergil's fedora was the single most brilliant piece of foreshadowing in this or any video game. Vergil: "Why do you care so much about humans? They're nothing but worthless NPCs..."
I don't know if anybody really realised it, but when on earth did this game establish anything about Yamato? Vergil mentioned it in his monologue that Sparda gave it to him and beyond that we learn nothing about it. Then at the end they just throw out just before it happens that it can close the hell gate. Taking out the context of the previous games, which this being a reboot i'm sure it wants you to do, when did we learn that? Why are we supposed to just accept that Vergil's weapon can suddenly close off Mundus' power supply with no explanation?
It is surprising how Mundus never knew about a second Nephilim, considering there’s a whole block filled with graffiti about them. There was even a demon collaborator following Dante and Vergil around the block.
Actually in that final cutscene, you CAN'T defeat Vergil without popping DT. If you get Vergil down to 1 HP he falls over and his Doppleganger will constantly teleport and counter you if you attempt to hit him. The "solution" to this "puzzle" is to pop your own DT to freeze Vergil's Doppleganger in the air so you can finish him.
You say DmC went Man of Steel at the end, well both this and Man of Steel released around the same time, theee was edge in the water supply in 2013 Now, lets continue DMC2 ... Oh...
Man of Steel wasn't even that edgy. Solid setup for Super-Cavill to develop from alien guardian to paragon of humanity. Hints of charm from Clark to balance out his alien-ness. Overall hopeful message, marred by the ridiculous spectacle of the final battle, granted, but it was a decent superman outing, if not amazing.
@@shuvamkabir5633 It's actually kind of insulting. If all the characters aren't quipping, making jokes and having a good time, then the thing is edgy. As if human life exists on only two places: super happy or super sad. It was a pretty good Superman story that got to the heart of the character. Superman is good, but mankind is shit (and needs him to help them be good, which was something Jor-El said verbatim).
Canon Vergil:”Might controls everything! And without power you can protect nothing. Let alone yourself!” That line says VOLUMES more about Canon Vergil’s character than this ENTIRE game did about DmC Vergil.
Canon Vergil is a powerful warrior intent on pursuing the power of his father to become strong enough to never feel the pain of loss. DmC Vergil (Vergin) is a dumbass from r/incel that sees himself superior to humans despite being monstrously weaker than his brother. Oh, and he’s a baby killer. A+ there Tameen.
@@Mariodash23, loss of whom? based on his attitude towards his brother and neglected mention of Nero in 3, and then what we've seen him do it 5, there's no one, right? unless there's *others* ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@tay4366 The loss of his mother. The pain of losing her and probably never really knowing his father outside of his legend was what MOTIVATED him to want the power of his father. To become strong to never feel human again. It's the complete opposite to Dante, who rejected his lineage and originally never wanted anything to do with his family after his mom died. It's why he says that he just doesn't like Vergil. It reminds him of the father that he never wanted nor respects. Its only until after his experience with Lady, his fight against Arkham, and his final battle with Vergil that Dante takes up the mantle of his father and ensures that he will do what he can to protect humanity.
Didn't even need to say Virgil got corrupted by Mundus. All he needed to say was 'Mundus is dead, but another demon will come, and another and another. We'll fill that void to keep them as free as possible'
I'm just in awe of Tameem Antoniades. To have all those resources to draw on, to have Alex Garland in the room, and still somehow manage to turn out a script like this. The effort must have been enormous. It's like magic.
For this game's epic climax, Mundus channels the very essence of all that is DmC and becomes a titanic garbage heap. Has a more fitting conclusion ever been written? Vergil fight? What Vergil fight?
What kills me most of all is that the black shadow monster form he has inside the trash heap looks way cooler than the kaiju form he fights Dante with. If it had just been a straight up boss battle with that form it would have been cool. Hell it could have even been a brawler boss fight similar to Armstrong from Rising. No doubt, the angelic form classic Mundus had was way cooler than this.
DUDE!... the revelation hitting home as"Vergil' smiles and a gross third eye opens up on his forehead. And you realize that killing him is the only way to get rid of Mundus for good.
31:00 What did the developers say about Cat? That she had agency? I like how her big moments so far are: Be unable to help, get captured, be told to stay out of the climax, and then sitting on the ground to watch the last fight. At least Lady showed up with lightning bolts to try and save Dante, Lady spent half of her cutscene appearances murdering truckloads of demons with firearms and Lucia (who?) was actively slaughtering her way through hordes of demons too. But, no. Cat with her agency of... being saved and reminded of her place is good, too.
It's funny that Pat mentions Kat helped them after Vergil and Dante beat Mundus together, because I had honestly forgot about her. She's so boring in comparison to Vergil and Dante.
RustledEntity she really feels like a filler character. Like I can literally hear the office meeting like “ well we gotta have a female character any ideas guys”
@@RedNinja115 remember how the assholes behind this game bragged about how much better of a character she was than Lady and Trish while also insulting Lady and Trish (and even bayonetta indirectly)? god I fucking HATE ninja theory.
Watching this alongside the new godlike DMC5 TGA 2018 trailer....priceless. I also LOVE Woolie's on-the-fly rewrite of Vergil's character. Him being significantly weaker than Dante the entire game could've been an excellent way to incorporate him needing more power, so he will never feel helpless again. Also, it could be a twisted way of showing how he still loves his brother -- he saw Dante risking his neck over and over during the course of the game and it makes him feel guilty for not being able to help. SSS rank on that for sure. Goddamn it, what a waste. There *are* some pretty great things about DmC, no question, and the fact that they chose to play it over DMC2 is telling of its quality -- it's not a bad game, not even close. It's an above-average action game and is actually pretty dang fun to play, provided one has never played the original series and skips all the cutscenes.
steven contreras I’d actually disagree, they powered two of the best bosses in the game. They also had some good lines and are just better established characters.
To bad they didn't go with the Dante from the reveal trailer. A traumatised Dante would be cool; being hunted by demons your whole life for being born would leave some gashing mental scars and would have added a layer of vulnerability I felt the old Dante lacked.
Did i hallucinate that guy calling himself Dante at the end before jumping on a skateboard and flipping the bird? Cause if i didn't that needs to be in the cringe hall of fame.
@@M7S4I5L8V2A omg the context that it was in response to fan backlash and not just a jokey outtake makes the cringe so so much fucking worse, holy shit.
@@dollenrm To be honest though a moment like that despite how scummy it is... if Donte was like that all the time and the game went "you have your Dante here's OUR Dante and he doesn't care, we're different" it'd be entertaining in a cheesy punky we don't give a shit way. Too bad that doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it should.
I think I might be the one going crazy because I don't remember the voice over where he says his name is Dante in the original. Either that the twats at Ninja Theory actually thought that extra edit would actually make the game better for the Definitive Edition.
I was seriously confused for a second cause the way the story has progressed I was like no way we’re at the end yet nothing has happened in this game but here we are. This game flew by way faster lol
First this, then Star Trek. There’s only two ways they can step down from here. Which one will it be? The true DMC2 playthrough, or the long awaited RE6 coop playthrough?
@@KnifeyMcEdge That's going to happen regardless to be honest seeing as the AI is dog shit in that game and will get you killed anyway. I still remember playing through that game and dying swimming away from the Shark because the AI bugged out and was only shooting it once or twice every couple of seconds, then the second time I got it by doing literally the same shit because it was actually shooting it that time. And it's not like the AI solves the games 'puzzles' for you, it just follows you around and some times thinks about helping you out of enemy grapples.
No, you see, the moment you disagreed with Vergil, you awoke his power. This is the first time in his life when anybody has said "no" to him and it shook his very soul. He finally discovered the true nature of his style.
To be honest, you can't do a Boss Rush in this game because there are no bosses in this game, only set pieces. That's the biggest issue with this game, the only true DMC boss of this game is the Vergil fight and even then it's a watered down version of something we got YEARS ago!
@@trevingrayek791 well, they didn't actually answer my question, they sidestepped it. all you have to do is piss mundus off or otherwise get him out of the way and vergil can take away his invincibility. dante could do that by just tackling the guy out a window, his baby is entirely incidental and could be cut out without missing a beat.
OOOOOOOOH THAT LAST SECOND UNINSTALL EDIT For real though, everyone demanding a DMC2 playthrough don’t know what they’re asking for. It would literally be just shooting guns for 6 hours.
@Vazazell That's kind of my point though. The guns are the most powerful weapons in the game. Swords are practically useless, especially when it comes to bosses.
"Why did you kill my child?" "For freedom." Yep, this is totally good writing, This Dante is way more human then the original. He's so likable and well developed, The writers nailed it with this one. Why does closing the hell gate cause limbo to fuse with the normal world?
While the DE heavily reworked this final boss, the Vergil boss in the original(and currently only PC) release of this game is awful and show a lot of this combat's issues. During his 1st phase, he will shoot one summon sword and won't even attack you with a ground attack (since he doesn't have one), like how the AI can be real passive in this game. Another issue is that you can stay in the air for a long time easily. When Vergil does his aerial projectile, you can Angel pull yourself towards him and pause combo him with Rebellion. When he teleports out, you can Angel glide to dodge his same attack and repeat until the next phase or end of boss fight. Cutscenes interrupting gameplay? Every phase gets its own No lock-on? During his DT phase, the game will soft lock to the real Vergil, even during his regen state. Having beating Son of Sparda yesterday after giving it another shot, this game isn't a complete trashfire but it has so many issues in gameplay.
I keep wondering if this game would even have as many defenders as it does nowadays if the DE was never made. I reckon it might become a mediocre cult game in the long run like Enslaved, but even after playing Enslaved, I can see why that game never exactly found an audience.
Every enemy has specific annoyances and problems like what you're describing, I agree, it's not awful, but man does it have some major problems when you start replaying it
On top of it being a 'meh' boss fight... am I crazy or are Vergil's slashing sound effects just incredibly dull? Like... compared to 3, where his attacks sound crisp and powerful.
Real talk 30:00 if Vergin had literally just said "We gotta take charge so the humans won't just devolve into pointless war" or some shit like that which it feels like what we're supposed to take away because of the speech Mundus gives right before the fight it could have worked, instead it's just nothing. Yeah originally his reasons were fucking vague but fuck me did they completely fail at even making him a character in this game.
I think it would have worked better if he was more "We'll stand back and watch what they do with their new freedom and pick them up if they fall and guide them when they need it." That way he still gets the influence but doesn't sound like a horrible emperor on an ivory tower spitting on the peasants.
@@4thSurviver Sure but that wouldn't be him trying to "Take control" this whole scenario feels like another case of "Just fucking talk and clarify" and feels like we're supposed to believe he's doing it for the greater good, but nah, it's just "Yo I wanna be king" and Dante saying "Nah bitch".
I guess the whole idea just falls so flat because it is exactly the same reasoning Mundus gives 10 minutes before. Hell even Mundus sounded more sincere about it then Vergil did. It really did seem like Vergil was just backpedaling because Dante wasn't immediately on board for the lets be kings idea.
I mean, what really would have been a problem with Vergil and Dante ruling over humanity? As Dante has seen humanity is dumb, selfish, evil and easily manipulated by any higher power but with out the hell gate and limbo Vergil couldn't do that even if he wanted to. Then there is Dante, the king of not giving a shit or taking things seriously even at the end when he grabs Kats ass while Hundreds of Millions of people are getting murdered by demons at this point and was the direct cause of the city getting completely destroyed, so some 'protector' he is. And I don't actually see what the demons were doing on earth to begin with? Like ya, ruling humanity is evil and all, but did they really get anything out of it? Mundus would have been just as strong in Hell as he would be feeding off the Hellgate and most of the other Demons have fucking chainsaws and blades for hands, so I don't see them enjoying human socializing at strip clubs or bars, hell even the succubus was just strapped into a milking machine doing nothing and she was twelve hundred years old! in DMC it was simple, Demons killed humans because they were monsters, here Demons don't even attack humans even at the end where they are all exposed. I would think the slurm factory would be used to fatten them up, but nope it's just to make them dumb so the demons can control them to do.... nothing I guess. The whole plan was for Mundus to keep humans alive as long as possible, they might be dumb, but at least they aren't murdering each other or starving, which is a very undemon-like motivation for what is supposed to be the most evil demon ever who wasn't supposed to care about his child. Like Mundus's plan for humanity seemed more like an Angel motivation than a demon one, an Angel would consider humanity to be important as gods creation but their free will being the biggest problem they have as it leads to horrible sinful acts, so taking control and making them docile would be the best course of action and would be seen as merciful to them. A Demon would take over the world to fuck with humans, leading them to be pigs to the slaughter, they would start wars not stop them.
@@rikowolfin4984 theres also the issue of "what exactly are humans supposed to do about the new demon threat now?" if kat is any indication, humans have zero chance of combating even regular mob demons themselves unlike in the other games where people like lady exist. especially now that everything on earth is mega fucked because of dante and vergil. like "yeah, cool i have 'awoken' now but what the fuck am i supposed to do about the teleporting ninja demon or the fire one that likes to play 'the floor is lava'?" is "to cool for school" dante supposed to fight every demon on earth while kat hides in various corners?
Wait one GODDAMN minute if Mundudus was immortal only because of the hell gate then the nephilim prophecy is kind of mute. If someone could just break it. I'm not saying it would be easy but literally this game could have been started by an even more ambitious demon.
Virgil should have said "I pretended to be weak and do nothing to asses to your skills and weaken you." Then brings it home with the prophecy. "since only a nephilim can kill a demon king."
After Verguile straight yeeted And killed that bad fetus Their rather short quest was nearly completed They then had to go And put on a show To entice Mundus into battle It was boring and slow The twins celebrated to no ones applause Oblivious to all the damage they caused But wait...Verguile With most wicked a smile Had been planning to rule Mankind for a while So 2 brothers who knew each other For about...2 days Would fight to the death Someone had to be slain! They posed, they stared They yelled, they grimaced They clashed something fierce But their business went unfinished With nothing decided One left in a huff And the other palmed the rape victim's butt
I want to see a sniper rifle in 5, which has an angel wing on one side and a brass figurine head of a crying baby on the other side. That would be metal as fuck.
"Why did you kill my child?" was such a gut punch to me when i first heard it. I felt nothing but sympathy for Mundus here. I couldn't stand watching the scene just completely miss every reason why people liked these characters. I'm a lot nicer to this game knowing its not the end of the franchise now, but god what an awful way to end the game.
@@felabugg1 If you looked at this whole game as a bunch of bastards overthrowing another cruel bastard it might have something going for it narratively.
I mean, its EXTREMELY flimsy, but maybe Virgil couldn't use his abilities or mundus would know of his existence, and now that he is known, he has no reason to hide his power
Man, imagine if in 5, during the second-to-last mission, Nico's van breaks down. They're all panicking, there's not enough room on Dante's bike for all of them, and then Dante goes: "Don't worry guys, I've got one last trick up my sleeve." They go to Devil May Cry's garage, and Dante pulls back a sheet, revealing the Vergilmobile.
So a guy on Reddit a few episodes back tried defending virgin, in that he felt pat and woolie where being unfair to him in terms of how strong he is, and after watching this I totally agree with pat on this, maybe in the virgins downcoming dlc he might redeem himself though.
No he only gets worse. You find out he was super jealous of Donte and thought that Squirrel Semen Girl And Ayy ‘Ma thought Donte was cooler and better then him, and his dick may not be bigger or something. Then he turns into the worst character design ever.
Holy shit I just got it! Vergil glows blue when he uses doppleganger! That's the angel trigger. Time and space... I guess Ninja theory taught they were clever... Until you realize that it's just the extra style of 3
I didn't know they changed the ending scene before the credits in the DE, in the original, as he's looking at the camera, it zooms in and his eyes glow. Holy shit I was still expecting that stupid shit it and it felt weird to not see it happen.
@@CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN And? People don't go to every kingdom hearts episode just to complain about it being a "crappy anims game" **Even though technically kingdom hearts is anime af**
@@CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN Overall TMS was ok, but certainly not good and could have used a lot more work before releasing it, and actually fire emblem characters that aren't some weird shadow creature that is inconsistent with what it can do
Dante: (confidently walks away grabbing the ass of a woman who spent the last boss fight cowering behind a trash can) Ninja Theory: "Kat's not like the prostitutes with guns from other DMC games, she's a strong female character!"
Gracious and Glorious bust out of those statues on the staircase, jump Bayonetta like she stepped in the wrong neighborhood, and go “Stay out of Paradiso!”
